   
Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
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Breaking Barriers: How the Sex Toy Industry is Becoming More Inclusive and Accessible
The sex toy industry has long been associated with stigma and misconceptions, often leaving individuals feeling excluded and marginalized. However, in recent years, there has been a growing movement towards promoting inclusivity and accessibility within this industry. Here we explore just some of the various ways in which barriers are being broken down and how the sex toy industry is becoming more inclusive and accessible for all individuals.
Diverse Representation: One of the key aspects of promoting inclusivity in the sex toy industry is through diverse representation. Historically, the industry has predominantly catered to cisgender, heterosexual individuals, leaving other identities feeling overlooked. However, companies are now recognizing the importance of representing a wide range of identities and experiences. This includes featuring models with different body types, ethnicities, and genders in their marketing materials, as well as creating products specifically designed for marginalized communities. Non-Binary and Trans-Inclusive Products: In recent years, there has also been a significant increase in the availability of non-binary and trans-inclusive products. These products are specifically designed to cater to the unique needs and desires of individuals who may not conform to traditional gender norms. This includes items such as packers, binders, and prosthetics, which can help individuals express their gender identity and enhance their sexual experiences. By offering these products, the sex toy industry is actively working towards creating a more inclusive and affirming space for all individuals. Accessibility for Individuals with Disabilities: Another crucial aspect of promoting inclusivity in the sex toy industry is ensuring accessibility for individuals with disabilities. Historically, many sex toys have been designed with able-bodied individuals in mind, which has left those with disabilities feeling isolated and excluded. However, companies are now recognizing the need to create products that cater to a diverse range of abilities. This includes products with ergonomic designs, easy-to-use controls, and adaptable features that can be used by individuals with limited mobility or sensory impairments. By prioritizing accessibility, the sex toy industry is making significant strides towards creating a more inclusive and empowering environment for all individuals. Education and Empowerment: In addition to creating inclusive products, the sex toy industry is also focusing on education and empowerment. Many companies now offer educational resources, workshops, and online platforms that provide information on sexual health, consent, and the safe and responsible use of sex toys. By equipping individuals with knowledge and resources, the industry is empowering them to make informed decisions about their sexual well-being. This education also helps to break down barriers by challenging societal taboos and misconceptions, ultimately promoting a more inclusive and sex-positive culture. The sex toy industry is undergoing a significant transformation as it strives to become more inclusive and accessible for all individuals. By embracing diverse representation, creating non-binary and trans-inclusive products, prioritizing accessibility, and focusing on education and empowerment, the industry is breaking down traditional barriers and promoting a more inclusive and sex-positive culture. However, it is important to acknowledge that there is still work to be done. Continued efforts towards inclusivity and accessibility will help to ensure that the sex toy industry is a space where all individuals feel seen, valued, and empowered to explore their sexuality. Key Concepts:
Hello and welcome to securing sexuality.
The podcast where we discuss the intersection of intimacy- -and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich. He's a hacker, and I'm Stefani Goerlich. She is a sex therapist. And together, we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in a digital age. So, it's not necessarily a positive start. We're all getting a little bit older. I was thinking about this recently as we're replacing glasses and all the other stuff as we sort of get our house squared away for the summer. It's funny you say that because I literally was walking down the stairs the other day, and for some reason, what went through my head was that scene in the gremlins where the little old lady is trying to escape the gremlins, and she's in her chair. That takes her up the stairs. Oh, no. I don't know why I was thinking about the gremlins, but as I'm walking down the stairs, I'm looking at our wall and wondering what it would be like if it were load-bearing. If we could someday have the little remote-controlled chair that would get me upstairs to bed, I feel like that's been on both of our minds for some reason. Well, we've been replacing a lot of stuff, and one of the things that always comes to mind is that quote from Cindy Lee. I think I first heard it from you: this idea that we're all just temporarily abled. Yeah, so years and years ago, I was participating in this thing called the Detroit Area Community Leadership Initiative, which was sponsored by Ben the Arc. One of the conversations that we had was about accessibility and inclusion, and somebody, you know, our speaker at the time, quoted Cindy Lee and said that we tend to think about ourselves as either able-bodied or disabled. But really, everybody is only temporarily able at some point or another, whether due to accident, injury, or aging. We're all going to experience reductions or differences in our ability levels physically. Of course, Cindy Lee made that quote popular, but it's important to say that that wasn't her. Her original words, right? This idea that we're all temporarily abled. This idea that disability is not some other group or something we don't need to worry about has long been part of the disability rights community for decades and decades. And, of course, that comes into securing sexuality with our our recent trip, uh, to New Orleans, where we ran into someone who we just talked to on the podcast. Stephanie Sigler. We love Stephanie, and we bumped into her in New Orleans, and standing in the middle of Bourbon Street. What was she telling us about? Yeah, after saying Whoa, I can't believe you're here. She's like, Did you ever think about what you can do with a walker? Yeah. You know, my world is not one for casual conversation. We tend to either go straight into deep public policy rants or we're just going to immediately tell you how to pervert all the things, whether you've actually asked us or not. This is casual cocktail party or middle of Bourbon Street conversation in my world, and Stephanie had been doing a lot of work around making sex fun and pleasurable for people who were ageing for people who had mobility limitations and we ended up hearing all about the different ways that you can pervert a walker. No, in terms of aging, my memory is slightly going. Was she teaching a class there, or was that some class she was doing in her cruises? Both. OK, yeah, And and that's why I'm going to tell people you know, we love Stephanie. And if you want to know more about how to pervert your walker, I want to point you to her because this is her wheelhouse. But she does classes. She was there for naughty in New Orleans. But she also does classes on some cruises and other conferences and events around the country, thinking specifically about how to modify or leverage or adapt, uh, different mobility devices and other sort of service equipment, so that no matter what your body likes to do or is capable of doing, you can experience the most fun connection and pleasure possible. And, she was really inspiring, actually, in that conversation, I think so, too. That was one of my more novel and unique conversations I've ever had walking down Bourbon Street, baby, how many conversations have you had about sex toys while walking down Bourbon Street? I'm gonna edit this part out. So one of the things that I want to talk to you about in that regard, though, is you know, we went to that show in Hanover. We went to Altitude. We went to AVN. And whenever you go to these places, you tour around and talk to all the vendors and whatnot, and I'm carrying all the free samples behind you. Uh, and one of the things that you oftentimes ask them about is what? How is this adaptive right? What is your adaptive tech? What is this? Uh, you know, how does this look for people who may have mobility issues? And I gotta say, you don't oftentimes get the excited, enthusiastic, informed response that we got from Stephanie Sigler. No, I usually get sort of like Looney Tunes cartoon slow blinks, right? I get the blink, Blink, blink, II, I don't know sort of answers. And that is a standard question of mine. Not only because you know we are aging and I'm gonna still wanna have fun as my body shifts and adjusts and settles in um, but also because I I try to think expansively about my clients. Right? Like every single client I work with has a different body. Not everybody is 21 and not every 21 year old is like super athletic. And because of that, when we get the chance to talk to product vendors, that is a part of sort of my standard conversation with them. I want to know how they're thinking about accessibility, how they're thinking about, you know, uh, in the academic world, we would say intimate justice and pleasure equity. And it's surprising how often people that make their living, making and selling and talking about and marketing pleasure products don't really think about pleasure, equity, intimate justice and pleasure equity. Are those the buzzwords for this episode? I mean, they might be, but they're important things to understand. Intimate justice, um, was a term coined by Sarah McClelland, who is a feminist scholar at the University of Michigan. Um, and it talks about the ways in which people have access to health care information to sexual health education, the way that we tend to look at certain populations as being less able or less um, autonomous. Whether that's people that are ageing, we think of, you know, the older you get, the less sexual you're perceived, whether it's young people and their access to accurate and scientific sex ed information. Sometimes it's thinking about people with intellectual or developmental disabilities who are often again kind of shunted aside and thought of as as effectual or non sexual. All of that is intimate injustice. It is is a way of saying that certain people are entitled to intimacy and pleasure, and certain people aren't. And, um, pleasure equity is the idea that if people are able to make adult informed decisions that they have a right to experience pleasure, no matter who they are or what their bodies look like. And that is an idea that can make some people uncomfortable. And it was something that you know, I'm really passionate about and had not considered to be uncomfortable making until I'm standing in front of a sex toy manufacturer and asking them, How does this product promote pleasure equity? How is this product adaptable? How can people with disabilities use this dildo and getting those, you know, cartoon slow blinks again and I have to imagine like that's got to be the first time you had a conversation that you thought was just run of the normal that ended up embarrassing somebody. No, that's my default setting. After my kid I I run to the mill, embarrass him on the regular. It's it's kind of my whole jam. Also shout out to to University of Michigan. I don't know. That concept came from U of M. Yeah, Sarah McClelland and I are not personally connected. I think we've exchanged emails once or twice, probably with me fangirling over her work. But we are both, you know, tangentially connected her more directly than I am to University of Michigan. So go with Wolverines for continuing to set a high bar for sexual health and education information. Now, in doing some of the research that I've been doing, uh, for for our book and for some other projects, one of the things that I came across was this idea of de sexualization right, which is almost like the exact opposite. I would think of what you're putting out there. But this idea that the media oftentimes portrays disabled people in non sexual contexts, um, that the The general idea of the people who are trying to help disabled people is to, uh, somewhat de sexualize them and and sometimes dehumanise them. Uh, and of course, you already mentioned the exact same thing happens in in the elderly. You don't necessarily want to think about that with your parents and your grandparents. I. I guess this is like a a through line in terms of how media and public perceptions exist around these populations. Is that is that echo what you see as well or is that just some of the research I've been reading was wrong? No, that's definitely the case, you know, and and that's, um, that comes back to that pleasure equity piece. This idea that certain people are viewed as being allowed to be sexual as being entitled to pleasure and other people are viewed as either non sexual because they're less attractive, less appealing, ageing, disabled, or, um, as being needing to be protected from sexuality again because of factors such as age or ability level. Um, when I say age, I'm talking about adults. Obviously, Children should be protected from sexual experiences and encounters. Um, but it does include, you know, developmentally appropriate sort of body experimentation and things that all kids do as a part of healthy physiological and and developmental development. That's a terrible way of putting it. Um, they tend to freak out some of the adults in their lives, right? We're never talking about anything partnered when it comes to minors. But minors go through phases of exploring their own bodies and exploring what feels good for them, and that can freak out their grown ups. And that's also an element of pleasure equity, you know, understanding what is developmentally normal across the lifespan, not just for, uh, kids in puberty or the toddler exploring their own body, but also for ageing adults and for people that society tends to look at and say, OK, you used to be sexual. You used to be interested in this. You used to be eroticized, and now you're not. You're no longer in that category. So you know, the things that we're talking about are lifespan things. But when we talk about things like adaptive technology, we're talking about adults that are either ageing or have different sort of bodily experiences than the mainstream. Yeah, and I think for the the purposes of of this podcast and this conversation, we should probably emphasise what we're talking about. Uh, adults that we're talking about, um probably pretty mentally healthy adults, right? We're not talking about people with cognitive impairments like the the 40 something Who's got the mind of a five year old about adult people who have some mobility issues who have some sensory issues. Maybe they can't see as well. Um, you know, and and making sure that they've got the right technology and tools to still live a a fulfilling life. And this can be a controversial and challenging subject for people. There's a really famous case of, um her name was Anna Stubblefield, and she was a therapist who was working with a client who was an adult but who, um, had cerebral palsy and was not verbal. And over the course of their time, working together, her perception was that they fell in love, and I'm saying her perception because her client isn't really able to communicate in really nuanced ways how accurate that was. But she really believed that she and her adult client had fallen in love and had a romantic relationship and his family absolutely thought that this was not accurate, that she was reading into his communication efforts and that he couldn't actually say that or have those sorts of, um, relationships. And they ended up going to court. It was a whole huge trial about her and her, the care that she had provided as a clinician for this client of hers and whether or not the client was in a position to actually say yes, I'm in a relationship with her or not, right? And that's the type of things that we're not gonna be able to to solve on a podcast like this, right? I? I don't I don't know. Were they in love? Who knows? But the people who are still completely in control of their faculties, who completely know what they're doing but are simply, you know, ageing out or having other issues. That's, uh, that's what I'm I'm thinking about. And so, for example, um, in front of the show and all around badass Cindy Gallop posted a article recently about, uh, Hattie Hetty Weiner, uh, who died at 88. I don't know much about her other than she had this amazing quote about her experiences as an older adult. Um, and that was why you had sent me Cindy's post. What was it that she had said about her later years, baby? Yeah. So she was a a sex coach. She was a therapist. She called herself the World's Oil. This cougar. I don't know if she called herself that. Other people did the title of the article, and she had this quote that, uh hey, I was a committed virgin until 22 and a committed slut from 55 on. And I love that because the age ranges are so incongruous, right? We think about people as being maybe a committed slut from 22 until 55. But to be a committed slut from 55 on really challenges kind of our social narrative around what, being an older woman should look like it does. I agree. I agree. So, you know, kudos to her that I like the idea of reshaping these narratives. Uh, but of course, when you do get older, the the devices, the equipment, everything just isn't the world isn't really built for for an older population. I'm wondering as a side note. If that's gonna change as the the global population tends to get older, right? Like we're we're gonna have to, I would think, rethink and reimagine what the world looks like if your average population is middle aged to elderly. But I guess we'll see how that plays out. I was looking at, uh, a prototype to help people, um, with with movement issues and whatnot called love wear. Did I tell you about this? I think you mentioned it. But tell me again. Yeah. So the the idea is it is a form of soft robotics. OK, so what soft robotics are is it's a It's a field of study that uses, uh, you know, as as the name says, gentle soft things. Do you know the the the movie hero Sex, the big movie robot? I think I've seen parts of it. I'll be honest. It's not my favourite Disney movie. And you know, I love me some Disney, but I'm familiar. Yeah, that is a absolute example of soft robotics. They actually were in that creature. Character was inspired by real world soft robotics. A man. Yeah, exactly. These researchers were working on this prototype called Love Wear, and it was effectively, um, pants that were inflatable so the pants could inflate and could vibrate. And as you might imagine, they were meant to stimulate various parts of your body. Your eroses and, um, they were designed to be easy to put on. Very important. They're designed to not really need someone to hold or do something very important. And this part, I thought, was really fascinating. They had, like, a pillow for an interface. What does that mean? A pillow for an interface? Well, like you know, instead of there being a button or switch or or, you know, like if you try to change the speed or the pattern or those sort of things that can be really hard if you don't have good dexterity in your fingers anymore. And I don't think Grandma or Grandpa wants to call down and ask whoever is in the house to come and hit the buttons for them. I mean, that would be a It might be awkward. Yeah, exactly. And and so, in order to preserve privacy and autonomy and everything else they were using, effectively a pillow that you could do certain gestures to change the pattern to change the speed to change the intensity of the device. I actually love that idea. One of the things that has come up around our dinner table at times is the supposedly ridiculous, as seen on TV products like infomercials, infomercial things and often, infomercial products. Kind of you watch the commercials show really inept adults. It's like they trip and they spill a bowl of cereal all over their laptop. Or they can't pour a bowl or they can't pour a glass of juice. And it's kind of portrayed as, you know, look at these idiots over here who can't do basic things. And that's part of why infomercials are kind of seen as campy and corny and funny. But one of the things that I learned was that a lot of those products actually started out as adaptive technologies as tools for people with mobility issues or with some form of physical limitation. But in order to get funding in order to make the money in order to to make them viable as a product, they're marketed to the mainstream world. And so some of these situations that make a lot of sense in context, right, like I have rheumatoid arthritis. I genuinely can't pour a glass of juice. They take the context out of it for the infomercial, and it just looks like somebody fumbling around. The reason why this comes up for me is because I'm thinking about all the people I know that would love a pillow controlled vibrator who don't necessarily have arthritis and who don't necessarily want to call somebody in to help them with the buttons, but whose experience of pleasure whose experience of orgasm might make hitting those buttons more difficult for them anyway, Right? Like some people, when they're feeling really intense sensation, they might clasp their fists or they might stretch their hands out. And even though those aren't caused by a medical reason, both of those responses to pleasure can make it difficult to push a button on a toy. So how cool would it be if this pillow interface was available to everybody, whether they had disabilities or not absolutely agree, absolutely agree. And of course, this is just a a prototype. It was made by university students. It's not, uh, you know, about to go to to commercial production, but I 100% agree. So if any of our sex tech entrepreneur. Friends are listening. There's a business idea for you. But there was there was another one. You told me right? Was like bumping or something. Yes, speaking of things that don't get to go into production. I have been following this for years. I know I'm I'm I'm about to make you both like excited and sad. So bumping is a product company that was developing a toy specifically intended for adaptive use, called the bump and joystick. And it does kind of resemble a big curved pillow on a handle in some ways. And they spent a lot of time working with people with different bodies, people with different disabilities, people with different sexual sort of arousal patterns in order to develop this really cool, intentionally adaptive, intentionally multifunctional toy called the Joystick. And they spent years working on this and I followed their work and I was a huge fan of their product team and the people that were like leading the vision here. And then they posted something on Instagram, just like a month or two ago. I think it was like April May and they said that they had reached a point where they were able to actually, you know, manufacture product samples. They were able to put the idea into use and put the product into people's hands. But they didn't have the funding necessary to really do mass production. Yeah, they got it so close. But in order to actually take it to scale and make it widely available, they hit a wall. And so they announced that I don't want to say they were giving up, but that they were looking for somebody that could come in that could take over that had the manufacturing resources, the seed capital necessary to take it from where they had gotten it into full production so that it could be something that was easily and widely accessible for people. And it was so cool to watch them over the years and so heartbreaking to see it hit that wall because just like you described, this happens so often with adaptive tech, which again comes back to that infomercial model right. That's why they try to spin it into something that everybody wants. It's a convenience that's a problem solver because as long as something is kind of seen as being only for people with disabilities, a lot of marketing and manufacturing companies, the bigger producers don't necessarily believe that there's an audience for it. So they have to create this idea of wide appeal. And that's so frustrating for people who do live with disabilities because there is wide appeal. I just said, You know, I wish all of my toys had a pillow controller. If it existed, everybody would use it. But as long as these products are only viewed through the lens of adaptive tech, they tend to be marginalised in a way that's frustrating for everybody. Yeah, yeah, and I can see you know, the the number of able to disabled people is always a percentage where there's more people that have, uh, you know, most of their abilities and don't And I also know from the conversations we've had multiple times, both in terms of ageing and in terms of disability. You get into a situation where you don't have as much income so as a as a target market. A small demographic with not much income is not the one that's gonna pull all entrepreneurs in, but, you know, on the floors of a VN and altitude and and, you know, the the Euro Expo Aero Fame. You have found some products you like, right? There are some that are out there. Yeah, so I tend to be a brainstorming sort of person. Years and years ago when I was, like, 89, I did odyssey of the mind, which I think has been renamed. But do you know what odyssey of the mind was for kids like kids? Yeah. So one of the competitions that I participated in or challenges so they would give each team a thing like, I don't know, a plastic coat hanger or a part of a mouse trap. And you had, like, three minutes to come up with as many possible uses for this thing as you could. And the team that generated the most viable ideas for this random item one so I. I tend to be wired that way. I like to think about that and and, yeah, while I walk around sort of the the altitude showroom floor or aero fame, I'll ask them What adaptive technologies do you have? How are you thinking about people with disabilities? How are you thinking about alternative uses? The fact that they tell me Well, we haven't been Doesn't necessarily shut me down because then what I like to do is actually look at what they do have and start giving them ideas. You know, I will grab one of the toys, and I will say, Well, here are the the 10 ways I see off the top of my head that somebody with arthritis could use this or that Somebody, uh, who is a wheelchair user could still use this Or, you know, give me a scenario and I'll brainstorm it and that I don't know if it makes any difference on the wide scale. I'd be really curious to know if anybody actually goes back and goes, Hey, this crazy lady in Hanover said that some people might use our toy this way, but I like to feel like it's helping. I like to think of nothing else. I'm giving the sales reps another context, another framework, another way of pitching their products to the people that come up to their booths after me, because I do think it is so important to think about. How can we expand opportunities for people? And that doesn't necessarily mean creating separate products that, um, encounter marketing challenges and manufacturing challenges. Sometimes it means taking existing technologies. And I mean, in your world, you guys would say, hacking it In my world, we'd say perverting it. But But the outcome is the same, whether you're hacking it or whether you're perverting it, you're taking something, and you're being really creative and thinking about how do you use it so that you can expand the availability and the opportunity for as many people as possible. And that's one of my favourite things to do with sex toys. Yeah, that odyssey of the mind game was actually based on alternative uses. Test an alternative uses test. I think it was Guilford. It was the 19 sixties that that came out, and that's been sort of like one of the standards for, uh, evaluating creativity and one of the ways to to get people to be more creative thinkers. Uh, so love that and thought about using that in this. But hey, what a great way of you know, the Odyssey of my day. What tools and techniques do you use to come up with perverts? Is there any before we wrap up? Is there any, like, products that you'd wanna give a shout out to. That you think do a particularly good job. And obviously this is not sponsored. But I'm just thinking, like, you know, friends and family. Um, who who do you like? Who? What's out there? So the the toys that I keep in my bin of demo products, um, none of which are sponsored. I'm not really big into the whole affiliate marketing thing. These are just things that I've purchased because I want my clients to know about them. Uh, there's a company called Love Life, or or rather, it's a It's a line put out by, Oh my Bo OHMIBOD, and one of them is called The Love Life Rev. And I love it. It's probably one of my favourite things because it looks like an itty bitty kettlebell. You know, it's got a loop and a rounded piece, and it's a vibrator. But the way that the loop is shaped, you can kind of slide it over your fingers, and you don't have to have any kind of grip at all. Your hand can be completely open, and it's just kind of like nestles. It's held in place by the loop around your fingers, and it nestles in your palm and you can use it on yourself. You can use it on a partner. Um, I like it because the way it's shaped it can be used as a vibrator for both male bodies and female bodies, or both vulva's and penises. Um, you know it. You can do some nice perineal stimulation. The shape is lovely to be gender inclusive, and then it's designed to be inclusive in terms of grip and the way that you have to hold it. A lot of traditional vibrators are, you know, cylinders, right, and they require a certain amount of grip in order to hold them in use. And I love the REV because it eliminates all of that, so it makes it both body friendly and gender friendly. Love it, Um, what else? Speaking of cylindrical sex toys, there are lots and lots of different sort of cushions out there now that are designed to help hold a a cylindrical toy in place. Whether that's a vibrator or a dildo or any number of things, one that I really like sounds like candy. It's called the Bon bon sex toy melt. And I love it because they designed it to be disability friendly. They thought about, you know, people with cerebral palsy, people with E DS, people who might have, um, an amputation or be wheelchair users. And when you use it, not only does it have sort of a place to hold your insert toy in place for you, but you can also use it, you know, to like prop up your hips or to lay over. You can use it as a comfort aid tool. So if you want something that buzzes like the love life, Rev. But you do want it to have that insert capacity. Love the bon. Bon Mount. Um however, not everybody is just wanting to have sex with toys. Sometimes what you want to about is your partner. Oh, what a segue. Thank you. I was waiting. It took a beat, but I got the acknowledgement I wanted I thought that was a little sexy. Guys, I'm really bad at flirting. When I come up with something witty. I gotta give him a minute to realise I've said something flirting. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. You don't expect it from me. I'm so bad at it that it comes out of left field every time I manage to say something cute. So there are a variety of different things that I would say are similar to the sex toy out, but that are meant to help with partnered sex. Some of these are crazy, expensive. Some of them are more reasonable. The one that I recommend most often to my client is actually just kind of like generic brand from Amazon. But what I like about it is that it is, uh, steel piping, and it lets you kind of put the frame over your partner. And then you can sit on that and it will support your weight, which is nice if your partner can't necessarily support your weight. And it's designed in a way to facilitate penetrative sex. But also, if you're the one that needs the support in terms of being on top, it's also got handles, which I really like. So if you have inner ear issues where dizziness or vertigo is an issue, if it's difficult for you to be upright for long periods, you know I have my own disability issues, and one of my challenges, whether sexual or not, is I can't be vertical for long periods of time. It causes pain for me. So I love the fact that it has those handles as well to kind of provide some additional leaning support. Um, so that's one of my favourite things for partner sex. Do you want one more or have I given you enough already? If you got one more, let's give one more. But you gotta add these links to the show notes. So when people are are listening in the car, they're not trying to write this down and getting in a car accident and then needing more advice from us about disabled sex. I will put links to everything in the show notes, and none of those links will benefit us in any way. Uh, the last one I have is another, uh, woman owned indie sex toy brand called Dame. We really like Dame in General Dame. I've chatted with their founder. They're good people. I like them. They created something called the Eva, which is an external vibrator like click oral stimulation. But this is the cool part. It's entirely hands free. Once it's in place, it's actually designed with these two thin little silicone arms, and it's held in place by the Labia. So once you position it, it's hands free. And again, you're going to get that nice buzzy sensation for both partners, which I like things that make everybody happy. I'm a big fan in pleasure equity, both as a public policy concept, as an academic value and in the bedroom. I want everybody to have equal access to pleasure. So I love toys that make everybody feel good when we use them. And the Eva is one that does, because it's external and hands free. It does provide a little bit of vibratory fun for everybody involved. So those are my top adaptive tech recommendations. All right, Thanks for that list. It has been a good conversation. I appreciate you walking me through this. Well, thank you. I like it when you get to ask me questions about my random knowledge of intimate justice and sex toys. And thank you. Not only Wolf, but you who have listened to us today for tuning into securing sexuality. You're source for the information you need to protect yourself and your relationships. Securing sexuality is brought to you by the bound Together Foundation, a 501 C three nonprofit and better of the cloud. We're here to help you navigate safe sex in a digital age. Be sure to check out our website SecuringSexuality.com for links to all of my favorite adaptive toys, as well as information about the topics we talked about today and our live events and join us again here, right here for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology. Have a great week. 
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