   
Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
Links from this week's episode: 
Building Community and Overcoming Challenges in the Sexuality and Relationship Wellness Industry
The intersection of sexuality, mental health, and entrepreneurship is a unique and challenging space. For professionals in the field, creating a thriving practice and reaching those who need their services often requires navigating significant barriers, from societal stigma to financial constraints. Leah Spasova, a psychologist and serial entrepreneur, has dedicated herself to overcoming these obstacles by fostering community and providing resources for other professionals in the industry.
The Challenges of Building a Community Leah Spasova's journey began with the realization that many sexuality and relationship professionals work in isolation, struggling not only with the challenges of their practice but also with the business side of things. The stigma and censorship surrounding their work often exacerbate these difficulties, making it hard to connect with peers or reach potential clients. One of the primary challenges is the pervasive sense of shame and guilt around sexuality, which not only affects clients but also isolates professionals from one another. The lack of accessible, supportive communities leaves many feeling unsupported and overwhelmed, leading to high burnout rates and, ultimately, a shortage of qualified professionals in the field. The Solution: The Sexpert Business Community To combat these challenges, Leah founded the Sexpert Business Community, an organization designed to connect professionals, share resources, and provide support for building successful practices. This community offers networking events, workshops, and meetings where professionals can exchange ideas, collaborate on projects, and support each other in navigating the complex business aspects of their work. Additionally, Leah has launched Life’s Explicit, a platform that goes beyond a simple directory to actively promote professionals' services and products. By handling the marketing, advertising, and promotion that many professionals struggle with, Life’s Explicit allows them to focus on their core work, helping clients without the added burden of self-promotion. Addressing Financial and Business Mindset Barriers A recurring theme in Leah’s work is addressing the negative mindsets around money and business that are prevalent in the sexuality and relationship wellness industry. Many professionals, particularly women, have internalized societal messages that devalue their work, leading to undercharging and financial instability. Leah advocates for a shift in perspective, encouraging professionals to see their work as valuable and worthy of fair compensation. By embracing a more positive and proactive approach to business, professionals can build sustainable practices that not only support their livelihoods but also allow them to reinvest in their communities and create lasting change. The Importance of Collaboration One of the key takeaways from Leah’s approach is the power of collaboration. By working together, professionals can share knowledge, refer clients, and create a more resilient and supportive industry. This collaboration extends beyond just sharing resources; it also involves challenging the scarcity mindset that often pervades the field. Leah emphasizes that there is enough work to go around and that by supporting each other, professionals can expand their reach and impact. Leah Spasova’s work is a vital contribution to the sexuality and relationship wellness industry. By building communities, addressing business mindset issues, and fostering collaboration, she is helping to create a more supportive and sustainable environment for professionals. This, in turn, allows these professionals to better serve their clients, ultimately leading to a healthier and more informed society. For those in the field looking to connect with like-minded professionals and build a thriving practice, Leah’s Sexpert Business Community and Life’s Explicit platform offer invaluable resources and support. Key Concepts:
Hello and welcome to Securing Sexuality, the podcast where we discuss the intersection of intimacy and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich. He's a hacker and I'm Stefani Goerlich.
She's a sex therapist and together we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in the digital age. Hey, do you know what my favorite thing is beyond podcasting tools that don't always work? I don't think I'm allowed to answer that publicly. My favorite PG thing. Community. What? Community. Okay. Yeah. I was going to say social media. So community counts. Yeah. All about the community, all about the community. But as we've talked so often on this show, it is incredibly hard to form good community around the type of topics we talk about here. This is true. We spend a lot of time talking about, writing about, warning people away from terrible communities. But I do like a good one when we find it. Yeah, absolutely. And so I am excited for today's guest. We've got Leah Spasova, a psychologist specializing in sex and relationships. I think I'm already outnumbered in terms of both the psychology and the sex part. Her work is focused on helping people improve and future-proof their relationships and enjoy more fulfilling, intimate lives. She's also a serial entrepreneur. I get point for serial entrepreneur side. One more point on Wolf's side of this podcast. A serial entrepreneur dedicated to supporting the sexuality and relationship wellness field. And she runs the Sexpert Business Community and Life's Explicit, which is what we are here to talk about today. Leah, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. I'm excited to have you because he's right. He is outnumbered. And there have been so many episodes where we have talked to hackers that it's nice to have another sex expert on for a change. Amazing. So let's start with the big question. Why is it so hard to form community around this topic? Well, where do we begin? The biggest one is shame, people being brought up with shame and guilt around sexuality and intimacy. And oftentimes, people have nobody that they can talk to about sex and intimacy. And when they go see a sex therapist, sex coach, relationship coach, this person is the first individual to ever listen to them openly, without judgment, to invite their troubles and questions into a session and support them. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't even know that we exist as sexperts. And they end up going to mainstream therapists. And mainstream therapists are not generally educated into the field of sex and relationships as much. They're more focused on anxiety, depression, these kind of like, everyday almost challenges that most people face. And that leaves them more vulnerable to more trouble down the line, just because they're not accessing the right help. So it's very difficult to first of all, open up, Google, search, and also find us, because we're massively censored. That censorship has been an ongoing problem. I'm sure the folks that listen to our podcasts on a regular are tired of me complaining about this yet, but I will continue to complain until it's fixed. My practice has been permanently blocked on Instagram from advertising. I don't do anything explicit. I'm not, you know, selling anything or taking off anybody's clothes. I am just a social worker. And to your point, I continue to hold myself and my practice up as an example of online censorship, because even with all of the people that we know and strings that we can pull, it's been impossible to advertise kink affirming mental health care. And so I'm so glad that there are people like you out there that are working to combat that to provide alternatives to that. It's really needed and necessary. No, I hear you. I've experienced censorship myself a lot. And it's absolutely heartbreaking that all the good work that we are trying to get across to people is just not reaching them. We can't, we can't help. So what are you doing? What is your solution to the censorship crisis that is keeping people from building community amongst other professionals, keeping clients from finding the people that they would want in their lives? How do we fix it? What are you doing? The people that work to censor us work together. And we don't work together enough to fight censorship, to petition, and we don't support the few organizations that actually do something to fight censorship, especially in the US where it's way worse than it is in Europe and the rest of the world. And I had an interview with Danielle Kramer, who specializes in abortion care a couple of years ago, right before Roe v. Wade. And she basically said, like, the reason why these people are very successful is because they work together and they're not that many. We will genuinely outnumber them if we work together to fight for our rights, to fight against censorship. But we don't. Most sexuality professionals work in isolation and struggle in isolation. And when I started my business, my private practice, I was that person. And it was by sheer luck and accident that I stumbled upon a couple of people that were open to talk about business and what works. They were also early days in their entrepreneurial journey as a sexpert. And we ended up organizing these kind of meetups and talking about what works, what doesn't work for us as professionals, and how we reach people without being banned, without being censored, and so forth. And that became the Sexpert Business Community. And it was an accidental thing. I did not intend it to be a business of its own right. But people kept reaching out and turning up to the meetings and giving us a lot of feedback and questions and all of that. So now it's been five years since I started this. And I've seen a lot about the industry. And I can tell you a lot of it that we are struggling with can be fixed if we only work together. But we don't. I think that's a really good observation. When I first started dating Stefani, well, before we got married, I was really used to very vibrant, not huge, but reasonably sized communities. Because I've started a couple, I belong to several. When you're in tech, when you're in software development, when you're in IT, when you're in hacking, you can throw a stone and find 30 people who show up for coffee to talk about their issues and what's working and what's not. As a matter of fact, poor Stefani got dragged to a couple of those meetups where she's like, just stop talking about tech. But anyways, it feels very much not the case in your world. And part of that, I suppose, is because of all the issues you mentioned. And also, I also have to imagine part of it is just because you guys are so busy. I mean, your calendars are always packed. So it almost seems like there's not even time sometimes to form community and connections. I think a lot of sexuality professionals are busy doing busy work, which does not really convert into paying clients or products that they develop and sell. And there's a massive struggle actually in the field for professionals to make a living. And over the past five years, I've seen too many drop out. And I'm like, please don't. Because if you look at the mental health, which is the field I come from, if you look at mental health, every single Western country is fighting for psychologists everywhere. And for mental health professionals, because there's such shortages. In the UK, if you need a therapist or whatever, and you want to go through the National Health Service, you may wait up to two years. If you're lucky, and by lucky, I mean suicidal, you may get help in about two months time. So you can see how strained the mental health industry is. And all these people that need our help end up trying to access mental health professionals who are not even qualified or trained to work with the challenges that they present. So the need is massive. But the problem is that a lot of sexuality professionals spend a lot of time doing busy work and not actually getting to clients and not actually getting clients that can fill their practice, support their work so they can stay in the industry. So I hear you, but it's more complex in that regard, from what I've seen. I definitely hear you when it comes to the people leaving the field. I spend more time than really is reasonable for any human being on Reddit. And one of the subs that I hang out in is the therapist subreddit. And it just came up, I want to say either last night or this morning, somebody talking about how the ability to be in private practice is really a privilege, and how it is contingent on, for most people, having a partner whose job is going to provide insurance, having a partner at all, so you have a second income, the flexibility to wait it out while you build up a client panel or wait it out while you get paneled with insurance companies, the ability to have enough of a cushion that when you run into an insurance snag and there's a clawback, that doesn't mean that you can't make rent this month. And it was a really fascinating conversation because there were so many people saying, you know, that's why I stay in community mental health, or that's why I stay in the nonprofit world or in a group practice that takes 60% of my earnings. Because private practice is incredibly financially risky to do on your own. It is. And the problem is that a lot of people try to do their own marketing, promotion, advertising, all of like sales copy, all of it. And I'm like, you were not trained to do that. There are people who have spent their whole life studying marketing, advertising, search engine optimization, copywriting, etc. But because a lot of people start with a very low budget, and they want to start their practice with practically no money, they try to do it all. And obviously, their website is terrible. Their copy is terrible. They run some ads, but they don't even know how to run them. So they end up spending copious amounts of time and money as well on things that don't work. So that's why it's really difficult to begin because most people just go like, well, I can't afford it. So I'll do it all on my own. And it flops. We've all seen our clients try to do it on their own. And then they come to you and they're like, oh, I really tried. And you see what they've been trying, and you're like, well, obviously, it's not going to work. I see all the mistakes. And that's the thing. We preach to people, go and search professional health. But the irony is that professionals don't search professional help when it comes to their business needs. And also, there's a massive negative mindset around business and money in our industry, in the mental health and sex and relationship industry. And that's, if I was to go all the way down, it really goes down to the, I'm sorry, but the patriarchy and teaching women that their labor should be cheap and affordable, because they're providing care, and therefore, they should price themselves really low. And if they're charging what they're worth, they're actually evil, or anything like this. And I'm like, no, you need to charge money that allows you to live well, and to have the capacity to help more people. There are other ways to afford to, to give affordable care without just pricing yourself so low that you can't pay for anything. But again, these are mindsets that most professionals, unfortunately, do not address. Scarcity mindset, savior complex, all these things I've seen so much of. Guilty myself, you know, when I started, I was like, I want to, you know, provide affordable care and blah, blah, blah. And then you look at the numbers, and you're like, well, I can't, because in the past, an employer was paying for your insurance, for your health, for your holidays, for your sick pay, you, you could call in and be like, I can't come in today. And that was fine. Now, if you're not working, you're not making any money. Nobody's paying for your holiday. And also, nobody's paying for your advertising. Nobody's bringing you clients to the door as before. So all of these kinds of things do not allow people to just charge basic rates, because basic rates don't allow you to go on holiday, have health care, and, and be sick even. So that's another issue that most people don't realize that what you make for your company as an employee is two or three times higher than what they pay you, just because they have to pay for everything else, your pension, health, everything. And a lot of people don't account for that when they start a business. Yes, the unexpected lack of, you know, workers comp insurance has been, it's interesting, the financial logistics of private practice are fascinating. And everything you're saying really lines up with what I hear from so many other providers. What then is the solution? How do we make something that is traditionally women's work? And I think that is so important that you speak to that because therapy is only recently psychotherapy is only recently considered a skilled profession. You know, if you go back to the 1970s, or even the early 80s, this was pink collar. This was where a woman went when she couldn't cut it anywhere else. It was social services. It was helping. And so there really is a lack of value placed on the role of therapy. Well, first of all, people need to address their own internalized biases and misogyny and negative mindset about money. Not long ago, I was talking to someone from the sexuality and wellness field. And they were very much like anti-capitalist, etc. And I'm like, yeah, I get it. But it's not going away. So either you play the game or you get, you know, fucked. I'm sorry for the lingo. But that's the case. And I said, imagine that you could ethically earn a billion. And she was like, there's no way I can ethically earn a billion. And I'm like, well, let's put it that way. Let's create, let's think of it about creating value and helping people with the value. Maybe you publish books, maybe you made courses, maybe you became Esther Perel, 10 times bigger than her, you know. And everything that you created helps people. And you still charge for it. You're creating massively positive impact worldwide with your work. You can ethically create, educate, support the industry, support the world and make good money. And I said to her, what would you do with a billion dollars if you became a billionaire? She was like, I don't want a billion dollars. And I'm like, what do you mean you don't want a billion dollars? Like, there's so many things that when you have money, you can do, you can change, you can fight for. When you're broke, you can't. You're survival. And you do not have the capacity to fight for the things that you believe in. Like, I know that if I had a billion dollars, I will be funding research for, let's say, contraception for women that doesn't have shit side effects. For instance, I would be funding politicians that have their heart in their right place and want to fight for our human rights. I will be supporting fellow business entrepreneurs in the industry so that they can make it big and they can influence the world positively. I'll be throwing money in entrepreneurs who create ethical porn like Cindy Gallop, for instance, and so many others. Why wouldn't you want to have a billion dollars that you have created by creating value for the world? And that's the thing. A lot of professionals in the industry have such a negative mindset. And I'm like, all of it, money, business, it will be a tool in your hands. If you become a billionaire and you're spending on, I don't know, Porsches and buying yourself an island somewhere, like, okay, but can you do some good with it? And that's the problem. Most professionals, again, devalue themselves. They do not examine these money negative mindsets, have a massive, scarcity mindset about money. And that's why they don't really end up helping as many people, because they don't spend money on their businesses to actually get the right promotion, to reach the right people. They don't invest in having people that can help them build the best products, the best courses, the best books, whatever it is, that can actually change the world. And that's the saddest thing, because I see it all day long. When I talk to professionals, they're like, oh, yeah, I want to, I want to change the world. And I'm like, well, how are you doing it? And they simply aren't. The moment someone gives me a billion dollars, I am definitely sending money to Cindy Gallop. But until then, with folks who are throughout their career, especially early on, the toy makers, the entrepreneurs, folks who are like Stephanie, non-profits like the Bound Together Foundation, what is it that, well, two things, one, how do they engage with the communities you're building? And secondly, how are people in that community helping each other get a little closer to that $1 billion figure? Anyone wants to join the Shakespeare Business Community, it's really easy to just Google us. We're the first result that pops up on Google. And the best way is to engage with the meetings, because we run meetings, we run networking events. And these are the opportunities where people get together and can speak about the challenges that they face in the meetings. For instance, when we do meetings and networking, we basically invite people to fill out a form saying, I'm this and this person, here's my LinkedIn, here's my website, here's what I do. And here's how I want to collaborate with people, such as run events together, like workshops, webinars. I want to interview them for my podcast, or I want to be interviewed, etc. So we give that infrastructure to people to actually connect outside of meetings. And I always say, connect with people, work with people. We have articles on our website about how to collaborate ideas, endless ideas of how to collaborate with partners, and partner up with fellow colleagues. And part of it is literally follow up, because I know I've had plenty of meetings with people about potential work together or partnerships, and excitement is high at first, and then people just drop off. And I'm like, well, you know, we spent like a couple of hours discussing this, and now what we just abandon it, you know, and people don't follow up with emails. So just this kind of business know how that it's okay to follow up that it's okay that you dropped off, and it's no shame, just get back to the person that you discussed a partnership with. And in terms of the other work that we do to support professionals is a platform we're calling Life's Explicit, where it's everything that I wish I had when I was starting out. It's a blend between a directory where you can list yourself as a professional, but it's so much more because you can also list any kind of products, and services, merchandise, books that you have created, published, etc. And we will promote them. So that kind of work that you would usually expect to do yourself, the building social media, the newsletter, the advertising, etc. Life's Explicit does it for you, because it's more than a directory, you get to be promoted in multiple ways. For instance, we have quizzes. And if you have written an article that could easily be recommended to someone who has just filled out that that quiz and had had such an outcome from it, we'll be like, hey, read this article. And that article will promote the professional, will lead directly to their profile, and people can find them easily. So a lot of the challenges that sexuality professionals face can be helped if we worked in a community, if we work together. And the expenses for running a business can be massively reduced when we're doing it wholesale, so to speak, for like multiple people, rather than for like individual professionals. So there's so many things infrastructure-wise that the industry is missing. And these are the two that I have found to be really close to my heart, and to be keen on working on, to support professionals with. You know, I think that makes a perfect sense to me from a dollars and cents perspective, right? If you're thinking about a newsletter, if you're thinking about advertising on the socials, if you're thinking about advertising on the search engines, you're right away thinking about a couple thousand U.S. a month to run something like that. So right away, I think that makes a lot of sense. Can you give me an example of some of the ways people help each other from a community perspective? You were highlighting like, oh, we need to get people together to share ideas, share tips. What's a good story of how that comes together? If sexuality professionals have something to share with the industry that they want to teach, as for instance, we interviewed Danielle Kramer, as I mentioned earlier, about abortion care and how this is impacting sexuality professionals in terms of confidentiality, disclosure, courts, etc. That is a really good way that sexuality professionals can support the industry. So if you specialize in something, why not share that knowledge with your fellow colleagues and you can do this through the sexual business community? David Lee, he spoke about ethics in practice in an interview with us, and that's hugely important because a lot of professionals struggle with the ethics of supporting someone through specific issues or from a legal point of view, whatever it is. Another way is collaborations, as I mentioned earlier. I've had multiple webinars and workshops that I've done with colleagues that have led to both of us expanding our reach and getting clients from each other. Audiences and even just presenting on something that is interesting to your own audience, they are reminded of you and they're like, oh shit, I've been thinking about working with this professional, you know, and it can boost the trust for both of you as colleagues. Another one is referrals that professionals can do for each other. I keep saying I'm not an expert in everything. In my discovery calls with clients, I tell them, look, there are certain things I'm 100% sure I'm not the right professional to work with, so let's explore what you're coming with in terms of challenges and if I'm not the right professional, I'll refer you. And I will refer to people that I know though. I'm not likely to just say, oh, I've heard Jimmy does trans issues. Go to Jimmy. Like, if I don't know Jimmy, I'm not gonna recommend Jimmy, right? So that's the thing, that if you show up in those kind of meetings, build relationships, speak and present alongside your colleagues, they see that you know your shit, they learn from you, which enriches them. I can learn for days about trans issues, for instance. I'm still not going to work with it. I can learn for months about Tantra. Am I going to become a Tantra practitioner and teach that? Nope. You know, so you can enrich people without stressing that they're going to take your clients and I think that's one of the problems that we have in that scarcity mindset. People think the pie is too small and someone else would steal their clients and I'm no, they're not gonna. And the pie is massive. What we're doing to service for the industry is not working together and expanding our reach. And that's a massive problem. This is how we literally shoot ourselves in the foot continuously. Absolutely. Poor Jimmy, I'll give him a piece of pie. He deserves the pie. Speaking of community, David Ley, friend of the show, friend of ours. So I'm super excited to hear that he has been doing some ethics work with you. David, if you're listening, we love you. I'm thinking, I'm curious, what challenges or barriers have you run into in getting this community up and running? We've talked to people like Shakun Sethi about problems with collecting payments for memberships for sexual health platforms. We know that it can be difficult when you're advertising even professional organizations on LinkedIn that are sexual health related. Have you encountered any challenges or barriers as you've built this? Yes, of course. The censorship is one. I mean, I've been censored by Google by even posting that the sex-free business community is in a partnership with so-and-so just because they're six. And I'm like, we're B2B, what the f-. So we've still been censored for basic stuff. So this is one, but that's everybody's plague. And when it comes to the building of the sexuality community is the resistance from a lot of professionals. They feel like they need community, but they're frightened from being in a community. Again, because of that, they'll steal my clients or impose the syndrome. Another thing that plagues a lot of professionals and they don't want to compare themselves in a context. And the other highlight is, yes, we might talk about practice, but we usually talk about business in those business meetings. So show up, you know, learn from others. We've had so many topics and things that we've exchanged as know-how that literally has helped people improve and scale their businesses. If it wasn't for my colleagues sharing what works for them, I wouldn't have been able to scale my business. I wouldn't be able to run my own private practice. And the other big issue is, as I mentioned, the business mindset that is very negative, the money mindset that is very negative, and the people are broke. You know, we want to do a lot more in the sex-free business community to support professionals, but all of that costs money. So that's why I keep saying, if you want something to thrive, you need to have the money to support it in order for it to grow and for it to continue supporting you in turn. But people would often see that, let's say we charge for the business meeting and it's like, do you know that from business meetings alone, I have probably saved thousands of dollars just because someone shared something about a software or an idea that I've implemented and made me money. One of my colleagues, because I have a podcast as well, I'm bilingual and it's in Bulgarian. So unless you speak Bulgarian, this is not going to be for you. But my colleague shared in a meeting that he regrets, in a business meeting, that he regrets not listening to business advice more often from me because one piece of business advice, and I'm not going to disclose what exactly it was, but for the past three years has made him nearly 40,000 euros. And that's literally been a five-minute conversation that has made him 40,000 euros. And that's the thing. If you want to cram your river that we charge for the time that it takes to organize a meeting, then you're not going to value the business advice that you're going to get from a meeting. Oftentimes people feel overwhelmed after a meeting. They have had a lot of advice from it. That was the early days. And then because they didn't really invest in it, they didn't really pay for that advice. We know what happens with it. They do nothing with it. When people pay for things, they value them, implement them. And there's plenty of research that shows that it's not that the Porsche is a better car than the Volkswagen. It's that people take good care of it. That's why it lasts longer. That's why they love it more, et cetera. So if you love your business, if you want it to thrive, you need to invest in it. And that's a massive mindset that is very difficult to tackle when it comes to us building the business community. That was a lot. Sorry. It was a great soapbox. It was a fabulous soapbox. And I think it really sums up everything that we were curious about, everything we wanted to know about you and your work. And I think it's a really great place to thank you for being here and to thank you for sharing your work and your ideas and your much needed entrepreneurial spirit in the world of mental health and sexual health. Because you're right. We are people that are uncomfortable with the idea of profit. I joke that my diploma came with fine print that said not valid for legal tender. And I kind of sort of stand by that. So you are a refreshing voice in the community. And I thank you so much for being here and for making time to join us, especially from all the way around the world. And I want to thank everybody else for tuning in to Securing Sexuality, your source for the information you need to protect yourself and your relationships. Yeah. Thank you so much, Leah, for the conversation. This podcast has been brought to you by the Bound Together Foundation, a 501c3 nonprofit and a bedroom to the cloud. We're here to help you navigate safe sex in a digital age. Be sure to check out our website, SecuringSexuality.com for more links to information about Leah, her work, and everything else that we've discussed here today, as well as our live events. And join us again here for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology. Have a great week. 
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