Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
Links from this week's episode: The Future of Sexual Health: Wearable Devices and Quantitative Data
In today's rapidly advancing technological landscape, wearable devices are integral to our daily lives. From fitness trackers to smartwatches, these gadgets are constantly evolving to meet our needs and improve our health. However, one area that has seen a significant impact from wearable technology is sexual health. In this blog post, we will explore how wearable devices are revolutionizing the conversation around sexual health, offering new possibilities for monitoring, education, and overall well-being.
1. Monitoring Sexual Health: Traditionally, monitoring sexual health has been a somewhat taboo topic. However, wearable devices are changing this narrative by providing individuals with the ability to track and monitor their sexual health discreetly and conveniently. For instance, companies like OvaCue offer wearable fertility monitors that accurately predict a woman's fertility window. These devices track physiological markers such as body temperature, hormone levels, and cervical mucus, empowering individuals to understand their reproductive health better and plan accordingly. Additionally, some wearable devices are equipped with sensors that monitor sexual activity and provide valuable data on performance and pleasure. These devices can track metrics such as duration, intensity, and heart rate during sexual activity, allowing individuals to gain insights into their sexual health and make informed decisions about their overall well-being. 2. Educating and Empowering Individuals: Wearable devices have the potential to revolutionize sexual health education by providing individuals with accessible and personalized information. Users can access many educational resources through smartphone apps and accompanying wearables, including articles, videos, and interactive guides. These resources cover a wide range of topics, such as sexual anatomy, consent, contraception, and sexually transmitted infections (STIs). By leveraging wearable technology, sexual health education becomes more engaging, interactive, and tailored to the individual's needs. Moreover, wearable devices can serve as reminders for individuals to take their contraceptives, get tested for STIs, or schedule regular check-ups. This gentle nudge can significantly improve adherence to preventive measures and ensure that individuals are actively taking charge of their sexual health. 3. Promoting Safer Sexual Practices: With the rise of dating apps and online platforms, sexual encounters have become more accessible than ever before. However, this convenience also comes with potential risks. Wearable devices can play a crucial role in promoting safer sexual practices by offering features such as real-time consent verification and STI status sharing. For instance, wearable devices can utilize Bluetooth technology to establish a connection between partners' devices, enabling them to share their consent and STI status securely. This innovative approach ensures that both parties are on the same page, reducing the risk of miscommunication and promoting a culture of consent. 4. Breaking Down Stigmas and Encouraging Conversations: Sexual health has long been stigmatized, making it difficult for individuals to discuss their concerns or seek help openly. Wearable devices are breaking down these barriers by normalizing conversations around sexual health. By integrating sexual health features into widely used wearable devices like smartwatches, the topic becomes more visible and approachable. Furthermore, wearable devices can facilitate anonymous support groups and forums, connecting individuals who may be facing similar sexual health challenges. These virtual spaces provide a safe and discreet environment to share experiences, seek advice, and find solace in a community that understands their struggles. The intersection of technology and sexual health through wearable devices transforms how we approach and discuss this essential aspect of our lives. From discreet monitoring and education to promoting safer sexual practices and breaking down stigmas, wearable devices have the potential to revolutionize the conversation around sexual health. As technology advances, it is crucial to ensure that these devices are developed and utilized responsibly, prioritizing privacy, inclusivity, and accuracy. By embracing the possibilities offered by wearable technology, we can empower individuals to take control of their sexual health and foster a more informed and open society. Key Concepts:
[00:00:00] : Hello and welcome to securing sexuality. The podcast where we discuss the intersection
[00:00:04] : of intimacy and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich. He's a hacker, and I'm Stefani [00:00:09] : Goerlich. She is a sex therapist. And together we're going to discuss what safe sex [00:00:14] : looks like in a digital age. Today we are joined by somebody I am super excited to [00:00:19] : talk to. Ashley Winter is a board certified urologist based in Los Angeles, and she's [00:00:25] : the director of the femtech line at FirmTech, a company we have been hearing more [00:00:30] : and more about, uh, as a practising urologist. She has witnessed firsthand how the [00:00:35] : intersectionality of female urinary, genital and hormone health was underserved by [00:00:40] : traditional medical specialties. That is definitely something I have experienced. And [00:00:45] : it is her professional mission to build technologies and healthcare platforms that [00:00:49] : increase access to sexual health. I am so excited to hear about this, Ashley. Thank [00:00:53] : you so much for joining us. Hi. Thank you so much for having me on. I love, uh, your [00:00:58] : mission. Um, that's very, very cool to to be a hacker and a sex therapist working [00:01:05] : together. I love it. And your world brings our worlds together. You work for a company [00:01:12] : that builds technology and devices that are used in se some sexual ways and sexual [00:01:19] : circumstances, but promote and focus on sexual health. Tell us more about what that [00:01:24] : looks like. Yeah, sure. So, um, the company is called FirmTech. As you mentioned, their [00:01:30] : website is my FirmTech, if you're looking for it, my FirmTech.com, um, and the [00:01:35] : primary product cohort that's on the market now is the Penis focus device, which, of [00:01:43] : course, right. The Penis is always the first. And unfortunately, I think in a, you [00:01:50] : know, innovation, development when it comes to sexuality. Unfortunately, people, you [00:01:55] : know, put the put the Penis Penis always happens to come first, but that's neither [00:01:59] : here nor there. Um, and what our primary product is is a essentially a smart cocking, um, which [00:02:09] : I know that it's like what, uh, and basically it's a cocker that has, um, pressure [00:02:15] : pressure sensor in it. So and it connects via bluetooth to an app, and you can essentially [00:02:20] : measure the duration and the rigidity of your erection. Um, which is pretty awesome. Uh, but [00:02:28] : my role primary role in the company is we are to is that we are developing a female [00:02:37] : line. And so the or the, you know, clitoris having people line and that focus is [00:02:44] : to generate wearable devices that provide, um, quantitative data on female sexual [00:02:52] : or C literal sexual function. Um, and so we have prototypes. We've completed already [00:02:58] : research studies, um, with very exciting results. And the idea is to make you know, a [00:03:05] : first in its kind, um, wearable consumer product that gives insight into how, uh, you [00:03:13] : know, the clitoris and the genitals are are aroused. Um, and yeah, it's just it's [00:03:19] : thrilling. It's thrilling stuff. I mean it basically, you know, uh, the really quick [00:03:25] : way to explain it would be, you know, your CIS Fitbit? Um, not exactly. But, you [00:03:31] : know, that's the concept behind it. So So, yeah. So you mentioned research. What, uh, what [00:03:38] : were you surprised to find in that research? I wouldn't say. It's that the that the [00:03:45] : results were surprising, but more so thrilling that they were that that it was able [00:03:50] : to show what we know in best case, uh, the device could do so. What do I mean by [00:03:58] : that? Right. So, um, you know, traditionally, when we're studying um, clitoral responsiveness [00:04:08] : or female sexual arousal we use, um, you know, questionnaires or subjective measures, right? Like, were [00:04:20] : you lubricated? Were you aroused? Were you How aroused were you? On a scale from [00:04:25] : 1 to 5, You know, things that aren't able to actually actually measure that, right? It's [00:04:31] : just a kind of a subjective reporting. So, you know, the analogy would be like instead [00:04:35] : of actually doing an EKG on you to measure your heart rate and your waveform, Somebody [00:04:40] : just asked you, did you feel like your heart was racing? You have a sense, but there's [00:04:46] : not a lot of granularity to how you're able to subjectively report on what your heart [00:04:51] : rate is doing. Right. Um, so the same is how we've traditionally relied on our ability [00:04:57] : to document and understand. Um, you know the way, uh, the clitoris and the ceramic [00:05:06] : genitalia respond to sexual stimuli. So, um, so the issue is right is capture this, like, how [00:05:13] : do you get a sensor on the clitoris? And how do you make sure that it has a reliable [00:05:17] : waveform? And in our in our prototype, um, the device essentially has, like, an egg [00:05:24] : that you put inside of the vagina to kind of keep it in place. And then there's a [00:05:28] : very flexible kind of portion that goes forward, and you talk, um, under the labia [00:05:33] : in front of the clitoris. And it sounds crazy, like, how would that work? But I personally [00:05:37] : tested the device and wore it and was incredibly, uh, impressed at how much I didn't [00:05:43] : feel it there, uh, and and how much? It actually got a reliable reading, Right. So [00:05:50] : what would a reliable reading be on this type of device? Um, it would be that you [00:05:55] : would see a waveform that looks like, um, like, pulsatile, right? Because everywhere [00:06:01] : in your body, where you're measuring, um, inward blood flow right from the arteries, you're [00:06:07] : going to want to see something that mirrors like your heartbeat. Right. So it had [00:06:11] : that waveform that pulsatile waveform. Um, which means it was accurately collect [00:06:15] : collecting. And we studied it in a number of women. Um, who used it during, you know, a [00:06:22] : neutral, uh, video clip, right. And then during an erotic stimulus and saw the change [00:06:28] : in the amount of blood flow in response to the erotic stimulus. Right. So it was [00:06:34] : like, Oh, neutral exposure. You know, the the waveform is is going, and then erotic [00:06:41] : stimulus. The waveform is a bunch higher, right? And that correlated, uh, correlated [00:06:47] : to subjective arousal, which was, like, really cool, because again, we are actually [00:06:53] : measuring it, not just relying upon that reporting. Right. Um, So the very cool thing [00:06:58] : is that this type of technology has been used in, uh, sexuality studies before in [00:07:05] : a lab setting, right, But not with a wearable device that you could have at home. Right? So [00:07:10] : you have, um, and and and the technical term is a photo pleth Grey photo plethysmography. I [00:07:19] : wish I could say that that better. Um and so there are are, you know, research, uh, studies [00:07:27] : looking at this type of recording. Um, but again, you have people going into, um, you [00:07:36] : know, sexuality, uh, research laboratories and having a device attached to them that [00:07:42] : has a bunch of, like, wires and cords and all this stuff, right? And, um, ultimately, there's [00:07:49] : limitations in that, right? Because one it's only gonna obviously be used for research [00:07:52] : and not for people. For home use for self, You know, awareness for biofeedback, for [00:07:58] : medication, adjustment, right? So it's only gonna be for research. And also, obviously, it's [00:08:03] : like the conundrum of how accurate can you measure anything about about sexuality [00:08:08] : when somebody's like sitting attached to a bunch of cords in a research lab? Right. So, um, um, obviously [00:08:14] : you can do really important work that way, but it's ultimately not gonna be, um, you [00:08:20] : know, the same as the the home environment. So that is the very long response to [00:08:25] : your question. That is amazing. It's like, so cool. I. I love this stuff. It is so [00:08:36] : cool, right? And it's like it's like people are like, Why would you do that? And [00:08:40] : I'm like, Well, I'm sure somebody once said, Why would you put a Fitbit on like, Why [00:08:44] : would you need to measure your heart rate right? Like And then we realised there's [00:08:48] : so much about understanding our bodies that can happen when we're able to have more [00:08:54] : insight, right? And why is it that our genitals and our sexual organs should not [00:09:01] : be part of that right? Like we always treat that part of our body like it's kind [00:09:09] : of this mystery, and it's not sexy. If we demystify it or something. And you know, I, I [00:09:14] : My whole like life's mission is to say, that's kind of nonsense. And, um, it's it's [00:09:20] : sexy, and we understand it and quantify it. And and that's fine. Like those two things [00:09:26] : live together and enhance each other, you know? So, yeah, this is a weird thing to [00:09:31] : say to anybody other than you, but I am a kind of a urology fan girl. My son, uh, has [00:09:39] : an incredibly rare neurological condition. So we grew up with him at the urologist. I [00:09:46] : used to do health care consulting and urology was my favourite discipline to consult [00:09:49] : with, um I have a friend who's doing her, uh, urogenital surgical. Uh, residency [00:09:55] : right now. Hi, Rainy. I love you. And oh, yeah, she's great. I understand why this [00:10:03] : is so important. Yeah, I. I think the average person doesn't necessarily understand [00:10:08] : how thinking about clitoral blood flow and and how a better understanding of arousal [00:10:15] : is going to impact their health. Like, how does this information change their lives? There's [00:10:23] : a bunch of different, different ways you can approach that specifically. So, um, the [00:10:28] : most basic way would be to say, OK, I'm gonna pop this device in and just wear it [00:10:33] : overnight and measure my what's called nocturnal Clitoral TSC. OK, and that's basically [00:10:38] : your nighttime erections, right? So the Penis has erectile chambers filled with blood, and [00:10:47] : that happens in response to sexual sexual arousal. It also happens during night time [00:10:53] : during REM sleep, right? And the same exact thing is the case for the erectile tissue [00:10:59] : in the clitoris. Right. So, in response to sexual stimulation or during certain phases [00:11:05] : of sleep, the erectile tissue in the clitoris uh, engorges with blood, right? And [00:11:11] : again, same same thing, right? So we know we know for a fact that loss of loss of [00:11:21] : erections, particularly nocturnal erections, right in a Penis, are an early warning [00:11:29] : sign of health risk factors. OK, so we know for a fact that and and I'm not talking [00:11:38] : about what we call psychogenic erectile dysfunction like, you know, 18 year old with [00:11:44] : a ver who's very healthy, gets nervous and loses their erection, right? Like that's [00:11:49] : very clear. I'm talking about, you know, somebody who's losing erections again. You [00:11:53] : know, they're not waking up with a morning erection. What we call really AAA physical [00:11:57] : physiologic loss of erections, right? So So that's a marker of overall health, right? And [00:12:04] : it's what we call like the canary in the coal mine for your cardiovascular health. And [00:12:10] : we know for a fact that that diminish, like that loss of erections predates, um, other [00:12:18] : manifestations of cardiovascular disease by a number of years. Meaning, like that [00:12:23] : loss of erection will happen several years before the heart attack. A stroke? Um, a [00:12:30] : transient ischemic attack, which is, you know, transient stroke. So it's like a huge [00:12:34] : deal. And why is that right? It's because erections are a blood flow event and the [00:12:41] : blood vessels those arteries in the erectile tissue are smaller than the blood vessels [00:12:46] : elsewhere in the body. Right. So it's actually this amazing window into into your [00:12:51] : health, right? Like like And so we know that we know that So much so that there was [00:12:57] : this consensus statement put out O over 10 years ago, um, Princeton Consensus statement. And [00:13:07] : it was basically saying that you should actually screen for erectile dysfunction [00:13:10] : in all men because it is a map marker for cardiovascular disease, Right? So, like, typically [00:13:17] : we just say, Oh, check your blood pre pressure check your cholesterol and, you know, maybe [00:13:23] : that's what you have to do and ask. You know about other risk factors, but actually [00:13:27] : part of preventative health for all people should be asking about erectile dysfunction, which [00:13:32] : is, like, not really done. But it should be because it's a very powerful tool. So [00:13:37] : what am I all talking about? The Penis and erectile dysfunctions and all this stuff? Well, the [00:13:43] : point being that we know we know for a fact that, um, the clitoris works with the [00:13:51] : same mechanism and loss of nocturnal clitoral tumescence, right. Loss of nighttime [00:13:56] : clitoral erections can be an early marker for cardiovascular disease. Up until now, we've [00:14:03] : had no way of, you know, clit is having people to really report that, right? Because [00:14:10] : you're not like, Hey, do you wake up with more clitoral wood like no, right, like [00:14:15] : it's not as observable. Right. So this is kind of the window into your health. From [00:14:23] : the standpoint of actually being able to see are you getting that response right? It's [00:14:29] : also an interesting way of looking at, um, the effects of certain chronic diseases. For [00:14:34] : example, if you have diabetes and you're having a hard time keeping your blood sugar [00:14:40] : under control. Right? One of the main things that can happen is, um, erectile dysfunction, Orgasmic [00:14:47] : dysfunction, reduced sensation of the of the Penis, Um, reduced ability to climax. Um, due [00:14:57] : to injury to the nerves and exac. Exactly the same. Is the case again for females, right. So [00:15:04] : if somebody could say I have diabetes am you know, am I having those manifestations [00:15:10] : of damage to the nerves associated with my diabetes? Right. Um, and it doesn't have [00:15:16] : to be tingling in your fingers and your toes, right? What we call it peripheral neuropathy. It [00:15:21] : doesn't have to be that you have to buy those special diabetic shoes. It doesn't [00:15:24] : have to be that you're having vision problems or needing dialysis, right? Like you, it [00:15:29] : could be manifest in your sexual function, and that's something you can actually [00:15:33] : observe. Right? Um, and use that to really hone in on, uh uh, you know, the effect [00:15:41] : of a chronic disease on on your body. So, um, you know, that's one way. And then [00:15:49] : the other way is a much more dynamic way. So if somebody is coming in, uh, who is [00:15:53] : saying? Hey, I'm having a problem. Let's say, um, having an orgasm, right? This is [00:16:00] : a way you could potentially something you could use at home for a type of biofeedback, right? Like, um, OK, this [00:16:07] : type of stimulus is really amping up. My, my, my genital engorgement, right? Like [00:16:13] : this type of port is amping up my general engorgement this type not as much. Right. And, um, again, you [00:16:21] : know, people say, Oh, kind of, don't you just know it makes you Hoy, But it's so [00:16:26] : much more multifactorial than that, you know? And so, um, you know, having this ability [00:16:33] : to get that real time feedback is is very cool. Um, And then the third thing would [00:16:38] : be, you know, we know for a fact that changes in sleep changes in medications. Um, you [00:16:45] : know, things like drinking alcohol can affect sexual function and performance. And [00:16:51] : so, you know, this would be a way to say OK, well, I changed my antidepressant medication. I'm [00:16:58] : not feeling aroused, right? Like if I changed to a different one, or I lowered my [00:17:05] : dose right. Are my generals having that responsiveness that I want them to have? So [00:17:11] : I'm sure there's a gazillion more potential ways you could use it. You know, we're [00:17:17] : just kind of scheming in our minds at this point. But, uh, you know, it's the sort [00:17:22] : of thing where, uh we're not even going to know all of the possibilities until people [00:17:28] : start getting out there and and, you know, monitoring this stuff and looking at it [00:17:35] : and playing around with it. And, uh, you know, we kind of say, like, biohacking themselves. Oh, I'm [00:17:40] : so glad you brought up bio hacking, hacking in general, the the entire, like sphere [00:17:45] : that goes back to, uh, In many ways, William Gibson and William Gibson has this quote [00:17:49] : that says the street finds its own use for technology, and I oftentimes think about [00:17:54] : that right until enough technology is out there in people's hands, you don't really [00:17:59] : know what's what's going to come out of it. Totally, totally. I mean, I and I can't [00:18:03] : think offhand like, you know, in my practise as a urologist all the time, I'll have [00:18:08] : a patient come in and say, Oh, you know, XYZ that you recommended. I used it in this [00:18:12] : way. Have you had any other patients do that? Because it was great. Um, I'll be like, Oh, no, I [00:18:18] : didn't. You know, that's cool. I'll mention that to someone else. Um, and I, I really [00:18:22] : do think that that will be the case. Um, you know, that will be the case with this [00:18:27] : kind of next generation of, um, you know what we call under wearable devices? One [00:18:34] : of the things I was wondering about that is when you're talking about how it's hard [00:18:38] : for people to subjectively report, I am completely there with you. One of the things [00:18:43] : that I do for feedback cycles and everything is I have a meditation app and the meditation [00:18:48] : app, you know, watch a certain patterns of my pulse, my brain waves and everything [00:18:52] : and and then gives me audio feedback and helps me really get into the zone, which [00:18:57] : has been huge. Now I don't know if I become a good meditator or I become good at [00:19:01] : tricking the app. That's the one part I don't know, but it's been it's been good [00:19:06] : to have that feedback. So I was wondering from the the pleasure perspective, right? Maybe [00:19:12] : not necessarily the medical side. I love what you're saying about early warning signs [00:19:15] : and good feedback and good health. We need to have that. That consistent level of [00:19:20] : needs met at that point before we can move forward. But from the pleasure side, can [00:19:25] : you tell me a little bit more about how that might guide someone in sort of getting [00:19:28] : in touch with their body? There is something I And this is a point I have to mention [00:19:32] : in our current form factor of this device. Um, it would be difficult to do direct [00:19:38] : clitoral stimulation while wearing the device, right? So you can measure your arousal. Like [00:19:44] : if you're not touching your genitals, right? And you're watching on porn, you're [00:19:49] : going to see that change in colour arousal. Right. So the ultimate form factor would [00:19:53] : be to have it this way as just a sensor, but then also have options that are incorporated, Let's [00:19:59] : say into a sex toy, right? Like a vibrator. Um, so So that you Can you you know, not [00:20:08] : just as like, oh, nocturnal clitoral to me, not just documentation in that regard, but [00:20:14] : exactly that. Like, you know what during this kind of iterative process, right? So [00:20:20] : So I think there are a lot of different ways. One, again you could say, like right, incorporate [00:20:26] : with a vibrator, have different modes and, you know, potentially even have something [00:20:33] : that's responsive to what's causing increased in your, you know, increase in your [00:20:39] : general engorgement. Right? So, like, maybe the device says, Oh, I see that the clitoral [00:20:45] : pulse amplitude really, really is enhanced with this vibration mode, right? And it [00:20:53] : and it goes to that right? Or it hones in on that, you know? So there's potential [00:20:57] : to make it specifically geared towards optimising that arousal without you having [00:21:05] : to just kind of like guess right. Um, but but yeah, I think there's also definitely [00:21:12] : this role, even similar to what? To what you're talking about with your meditation [00:21:16] : app. Where, um, you know, there's a like a cognitive component. Um, maybe you're [00:21:24] : Yeah. I don't know. Maybe maybe you're watching porn and you have it hooked up to [00:21:29] : your Claris and you record like a phenomenal waveform. And you can save that category [00:21:36] : and be like, Oh, this is like, what got me going, you know, I, I don't know, right? Like, um [00:21:41] : and and of course, it can also be used like you can also use this during partner [00:21:46] : Sexual activity? Um, I don't know. I mean, the sky is the limit. I have to. I have [00:21:52] : to, like, think, Think about the best versions of that. I think, um, you know, I [00:21:57] : had as a urologist, I always think of sexual problems and and less optimisation of [00:22:02] : pleasure. So, I, I kind of have visions now of, uh, people in in bringing this into [00:22:10] : their B DS M scenes into this whole. You know, we are going to really experiment [00:22:16] : with what kind of sensations turn us on. And maybe I think I don't like the feel [00:22:21] : of, I don't know, a single tail whip, but the device says otherwise Or maybe uh uh, uh, a [00:22:30] : dominant could use that to track their their part, their submissive arousal cycles [00:22:36] : over the course of a day. And use that to, like, plan out scenes. It it feels like [00:22:40] : one of those sort of quantified life sort of situations that with the right creative [00:22:45] : mind, you could do a lot of different creative things with that data. And I love [00:22:50] : what you're saying in that kind of bdsm um, capacity, right? Like there's definitely [00:22:56] : such a you know, space within eroticism where people like the idea of their body [00:23:02] : kind of betraying them, right? Like right, Where? Where somebody who's the submissive [00:23:07] : is like, right, like, ow! Ow! Oh, no. Or or meek? And then But then their bodies [00:23:14] : like having that engorgement and and demonstrating that and so I. I like that idea [00:23:20] : of somebody being able to say like, Oh, there's this window into the soul of my genitals [00:23:25] : that I'm like, you know, kind of trying to emotionally not not show. Obviously, you [00:23:33] : know, amongst consenting adults, of course. But, um, yeah, I mean, I think that's [00:23:37] : like, very cool, that is, that is super cool and definitely more creative of a thought [00:23:41] : that I ever had. So Wolf and I first encountered FirmTech, uh, at at a conference [00:23:47] : last year in an expo last year. And and that is one that from what I understand a [00:23:55] : man can use during partnered sex. But with this device, you really can't what what [00:24:00] : are what are sort of ideas for iterations? Or what's the What's the next evolution [00:24:05] : of this device so that it can It can be used for women, though, or for at least cli [00:24:11] : clitoris, Havers the way it is for people with penises. Yeah, yeah, that's an amazing [00:24:17] : question. I mean, you know, ultimately, the the difficulty is that, you know, the [00:24:23] : Penis just has more real estate, right? So when you're talking about wearable devices, it's [00:24:27] : it's easier to figure out a way to have something that's that's on the Penis that's [00:24:33] : taking measurements but also giving you, you know, the surface area to, um, be unencumbered [00:24:38] : in your sexual content, right? Con contact, right? Like and with the FirmTech device, It's [00:24:45] : the ring. It's a cocker. It's at the base of your Penis. Um, and obviously you can [00:24:50] : still engage in penetrative activities while you have a cocker on. Um, so you know [00:24:55] : the challenge? Of course, that we have right now again is that, um, you know, a sensor [00:25:00] : sitting in front of and right in front of the the clitoral glands, right? The head [00:25:05] : of the clitoris, um, you know, is not that. Yeah, And that also has an intervaginal [00:25:12] : component. Not that. Of course you can. You can engage in other types of erotic touching, but, um, of [00:25:20] : course, there's gonna be some difficulty having a you know, a vaginal kind of egg, right? That [00:25:26] : secures the device in place. And this kind of component that extends towards the [00:25:33] : front and sits in front of the clinal clans. Now, um, you know, again it when that [00:25:41] : is incorporated into something like a vibrator. Certainly. Again, you can use that [00:25:44] : during partner sexual activity. Um, or solo sexual activity. I think, Um, you know, perhaps [00:25:50] : the engineering challenge down the line would be to figure out a way to capture, um, and [00:25:58] : and record blood flow into the clitoral erectile tissue. That's not just the clitoral [00:26:04] : glands, right, Because, uh, as, uh, you know, I'm sure your educated listeners know, right? The [00:26:11] : clitoris is kind of like a wish phone shape. It's not just the tip, um, and it and [00:26:15] : it extends down, actually, um, um, deeper into the pelvis and, you know, kind of [00:26:24] : along the sides of the vagina. So, uh, you know, per potentially there's some way [00:26:28] : that we could figure out. Um, you know, another way of recording that Well, it's [00:26:33] : just difficult, because you also have engorgement of, um, the labia. There's engorgement [00:26:40] : increased blood flow into the vaginal walls. And so There's, um and and And we ha [00:26:46] : do find that, uh, based on the research that that exists that different areas of [00:26:54] : engorgement like Vaginal Gorge, um are less correlated with, you know, climax, reaching [00:27:05] : orgasm, then the clitoral blood flow itself. Right. So, like, we know that the most [00:27:10] : sensitive one is is looking at the clitoral clitoral, um, blood flow rather than [00:27:15] : just like the vaginal blood flow. And we don't want to accidentally capture that. So, um, it's [00:27:19] : it's a really amazing, like, engineering question, right? I mean, it's amazing that [00:27:25] : this is an engineering question at all. That's why I love doing doing this stuff. Uh, but [00:27:30] : yeah, I, I don't know. I mean, that would be, like, the ultimate goal. Uh, I'm just, like, thinking [00:27:36] : out loud now, about about it all on the engineering side. Can you tell us a little [00:27:42] : bit about how it works? Right. So we've got this device with lots of sensors. Um, you [00:27:48] : already talked about the physicality of that. How does that data get to, um you know, your [00:27:55] : your firm for analysis? How does it get back to the the person? Is it shareable? Right? As [00:28:03] : I as I mentioned before. The technology behind it is a photo plethysmography, which [00:28:09] : is really common. It's like a long word, but it's really common. Whenever you know, you [00:28:14] : maybe go to the hospital and they put that pulse ox on you. Um, you know, the little, uh, device [00:28:21] : that goes on your fingertip and has a little like red light, right? And it measures [00:28:24] : your heart rate and your oxygenation, So that's the same technology. And it's in [00:28:29] : a lot of wearable devices. Um, and it's It's basically a little sensor where it it [00:28:35] : shoots a little beam of light at your tissue and based on the light that's reflected [00:28:40] : back and tell the amount of blood that's flowing right. And so that's how the thing [00:28:44] : works. Um, and again, very common type of sensor. Um, I'd say, really, that the innovation [00:28:52] : overall is figuring out a way to get that to sit on top of the clitoris, right like [00:28:57] : that is the and to care about this right to to fund it, um, and do the research studies [00:29:04] : because that is the other main domain that hasn't hasn't really been achieved. Um, until [00:29:09] : until what we've been doing um, so So, yeah. I mean, in the current, you know, uh, form [00:29:17] : factor that we have, which is a prototype. Um, you know, the data has been recorded [00:29:22] : into the device, and then, uh, you know, you actually have to, like, manually upload [00:29:27] : it and everything, but, um, that's not difficult to, you know, once we have the commercial [00:29:33] : product, um, that's not a difficult thing to get over with our cock bring device. Um, you [00:29:39] : know, there's an app, and you can, you know, with bluetooth connectivity, upload [00:29:44] : the information into your phone. Um, and you basically have an app that shows you, you [00:29:50] : know, logs your data. Um, when did you use it? How long were your erections? How [00:29:54] : hard were your erections? You know, we kind of made a, um, erectile hardness score [00:30:00] : for, For based on your recordings. Um, and then, you know, I don't know at this point, if [00:30:07] : you're able to share it, but, um, you know, I don't I don't see why. Why You couldn't [00:30:12] : I mean, that's not a big deal. Yeah. Once the information is gathered and stored [00:30:19] : between, like choosing to share it or having other people access it like how secure [00:30:25] : is the information when it's gathered by the device and and stored. You know, our [00:30:31] : team has access to the to the data. Um, you know, we've we've analysed it, uh, collectively [00:30:37] : for things like, um, safety purposes. Um, you know, So, um, making sure, for example, like [00:30:44] : up until our device, you know, usually you tell people don't fall asleep with a cock [00:30:49] : ring on because there's a concern that it could decrease blood flow. Right? And I [00:30:53] : I'm sure you guys have heard horror stories As a urologist, I have seen the horror [00:30:57] : stories of people who come into the emergency room and, uh, you know, literally their [00:31:03] : Penis looks like it's about to fall off. And you have to call the fire department. And, you [00:31:07] : know, So, um, so one of the things we've done, you know, is to aggregate the data [00:31:13] : and just look at it from a safety standpoint, because we know people are sleeping [00:31:16] : with this thing on and say, OK, uh, this person has it on for an average of eight [00:31:20] : hours, and we see their nocturnal erection, so we know there's blood flow in and [00:31:23] : out of the Penis which means it's safe. Right? So that's a way we would aggregate [00:31:26] : the data. Um, and you know, that is, of course, deidentified. Um, you know, in terms [00:31:35] : of, like, the ultimate goal, uh, with that data, um, you know, an important thing [00:31:41] : with all of these devices is to, you know, be cognizant of where ultimately your [00:31:45] : data will go and and how it's used. Um, yeah, yeah, I don't It does make me wonder. You [00:31:54] : know, oftentimes, security is proportional to the size of the company. Yeah. Do you [00:31:59] : guys have a A data privacy officer? A security officer? I couldn't necessarily tell [00:32:03] : from the website. Yeah, we I mean, we have a, uh our primary, um, engineer who does [00:32:10] : all the the data management. And, you know, I would have to have him talk to that [00:32:16] : specifically, but yeah, I don't I can't give you like the exact exact details about [00:32:21] : how the data is stored, But but excellent question. So I have kind of an odd question [00:32:27] : we've been talking about, you know, vaginas and criticism and blood flow and engorgement [00:32:33] : and arousal. And this is obviously a product that you want more people to know about [00:32:37] : and hear about. And yet all of these are terms that will get us instantly banned [00:32:41] : in our advertising on social media. How are you as a company? You as a spokesperson? How [00:32:48] : are you guys navigating the conversations around sexual health and sex tech in a [00:32:54] : way that that makes it accessible for people without, um, ending up in in the social [00:33:00] : media void? I. I wish I had a good answer to that. It's so hard. Um, this is one [00:33:07] : of the things that absolutely kills me about social media. Um, yeah. I mean, if you [00:33:14] : say sex, if you say sexual health, uh, you know, you can get censored. Um, you can [00:33:21] : be told you can't run an ad. I mean, I've had so many problems with this, uh, you [00:33:26] : know, I had previously been working at this, uh, Digital Women's Sexual Health Clinic. Um, and [00:33:32] : we we really, really wanted to be focused on sexual health, and you can't It's so [00:33:39] : hard to advertise for that. And so people are like, Well, just call it women's health. And [00:33:43] : I'm like, that can mean so many other things. And that frustrates me because you [00:33:51] : don't liberate sexual health. You don't normalise talking about sexual health if [00:33:55] : you put it behind so many layers of vagaries. You know, like like it's it's it's [00:34:02] : a These are body parts and the use of these body parts are fundamental to human wellness, and [00:34:09] : it's not anything to be ashamed of. And it's not any like right, a board certified [00:34:16] : physician saying the word clitoris and sex shouldn't be like so crazy, right? Like [00:34:25] : I mean, it's just These are body parts, right? I mean, I told my my daughter is less [00:34:30] : than a year old and I'm like, You know, I tell my husband, OK, if we're gonna put [00:34:34] : deci in on her, we say vulva, you don't say down there, you know, like it's not it's [00:34:40] : just body parts. And so I go crazy about this stuff. Um, so I wish I had a good answer [00:34:45] : to that, and it's a huge barrier. Um, and I think we just have to keep normalising [00:34:53] : discussions of these things and, um and yeah, kind of kind of demanding that social [00:35:01] : media does a better job at differentiating um, you know, explicit content versus [00:35:08] : medical content related to sexual health, right? um and and I feel like with this [00:35:14] : generation of a I and everything, like, they should be able to to develop more sophisticated [00:35:20] : content. Philtres, Um, you know, like, if you're in the grocery store and you're [00:35:27] : scrolling through your phone, I could understand why you don't wanna see. Um, right, Like [00:35:31] : a pornographic scene on your on your social media, But, you know, seeing somebody [00:35:36] : say like, hey, learn about the clitoris, you know, webinar, right? So so vastly different. Um, and [00:35:44] : I will say another thing. This is just like a related topic that when you speak about, you [00:35:52] : know, kind of sex being censored, censored and sexual health being censored. Um, you [00:35:59] : know, with these new A I enabled, um, image generators, right? Like, I think, um, what [00:36:03] : are some of the main ones? Um, like the doll E. And, um, like, I don't know, there's [00:36:11] : a whole bunch of them, right? And if you ask them to try to draw, draw you a diagram [00:36:15] : of the lungs, right, it will do it. And if you ask it to try to draw you a diagram [00:36:20] : of the clitoris, it won't do it because it says it violates its content policy. Um, and [00:36:26] : and even if you explicitly type in like please draw a diagram of an an atomic diagram [00:36:33] : of the clitoris for educational purposes, it's like, That's journey, you know? And [00:36:41] : it's like we cannot codify into this kind of next generation of, you know, the technical [00:36:46] : revolution or whatever everybody wants to call a I, um, we cannot codify this prudishness [00:36:53] : into it, because if we will, we're gonna fall behind the ball in our understanding [00:36:58] : of how that region of our body works. Right? Um, and it's like a huge point of advocacy [00:37:06] : that people care about the intersectionality of technology and sex, like this is [00:37:11] : stuff we have to advocate for, and I don't know the best way forward, but I love [00:37:15] : your guys thoughts on this. I mean, the intersectionality of technology and sexuality [00:37:21] : is kind of our whole jam, and I think that the more we explore it and unpack it and [00:37:27] : and poke in the corners, the more we find surprising barriers or unexpected resistance, even [00:37:35] : from people that you know, you wouldn't necessarily expect it or places or or companies [00:37:39] : or tools like Dolly. Um, it's definitely an ongoing conversation. A. As we move towards [00:37:47] : wrapping up, I have one more question for you because, you know, I am a sex therapist [00:37:52] : and you are a urologist. And I love moments like this. I would like you to speak [00:37:58] : to the medical necessity and health benefits of pleasure. Please tell people why [00:38:05] : their right to pleasure is a health care issue. We know for a fact that, you know, physical [00:38:13] : intimacy improves. I mean, it improves depression. It improves. Um, you know, like [00:38:20] : joy in life. Obviously, sexual activity is I mean, that's cardiovascular exercise, right? I [00:38:26] : mean, like, there's just a very basic point of like increasing your heart rate is [00:38:32] : good for you. Um, you know, the neurochemicals that are released in your brain are [00:38:38] : very positive. There's tonnes of scientific data to support the fact that having [00:38:43] : intimacy and pleasure is is a positive thing. Not only is pleasure good for you, but [00:38:48] : intentionally denying yourself pleasure has no scientific evidence. And that's something [00:38:53] : that I also feel very strongly that it's like, important to talk about on the flip [00:38:56] : side of that coin. I love it. It's a really thorough, passionate answer well and [00:39:02] : on that note, I feel like we've got to deny ourselves the pleasure of continuing [00:39:05] : the conversation because we we are coming up on time. Ashley, thanks so much for [00:39:11] : joining us today and explain this new innovation to you and your firm are working [00:39:15] : on Well, thank you for having me and thank you for tuning into securing sexuality. Your [00:39:22] : source of the information you need to protect yourself and your relationships. Securing [00:39:26] : sexuality is brought to you by the Bound Together Foundation a 501 C three nonprofit [00:39:30] : From the bedroom to the cloud. We're here to help you navigate what safe sex looks [00:39:34] : like in a digital age. Be sure to check out our website securing sexuality.com for [00:39:39] : links to more information about the topics we discussed here today as well as our [00:39:43] : live events and join us again for more fascinating conversations about the intersection [00:39:47] : of sexuality and technology. Have a great week Comments are closed.
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