Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
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The Rising Value of Health Records in the Digital Age
In today's digital age, the value of health records has significantly increased, attracting the attention of criminals looking to exploit this valuable information. With advancements in technology and the widespread digitization of medical records, it has become easier for criminals to access and monetize sensitive healthcare data.
Health records, which contain a wealth of personal and medical information, are highly sought after by criminals for several reasons. First and foremost, these records provide a treasure trove of personally identifiable information (PII), including names, addresses, social security numbers, and insurance details. This information can be used for various fraudulent activities, such as identity theft, financial fraud, and medical fraud. Health records contain highly sensitive medical information, including diagnoses, treatment plans, and medication histories. Criminals can exploit this information in numerous ways. For instance, it can be sold on the dark web to malicious actors seeking to create targeted phishing campaigns or insurance companies looking to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Moreover, pharmaceutical companies and medical research institutions may be tempted to acquire health records to gain a competitive advantage or advance their research without proper consent.
The increasing value of health records can be attributed to several factors. First, the digitization of medical records has made it easier for criminals to access and distribute this information. With the move towards electronic health records (EHRs), healthcare providers and institutions store vast amounts of patient data on interconnected systems, making them vulnerable to cyberattacks. Cybercriminals can exploit vulnerabilities in these systems and gain unauthorized access to health records, which can then be sold on the black market. Second, the growing demand for health records from various entities has driven up their value. Insurance companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers, and medical research institutions are vested in obtaining health records for their own purposes. This demand has created a thriving underground market where criminals can profit from selling stolen health records to the highest bidder. Furthermore, the lack of robust security measures within the healthcare industry has contributed to the increasing value of health records. Many healthcare organizations need to catch up to other sectors in terms of cybersecurity investment and awareness. This makes them attractive targets for cybercriminals, who view them as easy targets with potentially high rewards. The absence of strong encryption, multi-factor authentication, and employee training leaves healthcare systems vulnerable to data breaches, further driving up the value of health records on the black market.
So, what can be done to mitigate the risks associated with the increasing value of health records in the digital age? First, healthcare organizations must prioritize cybersecurity and invest in robust security measures. Implementing strong encryption protocols, regularly updating software, and training employees on best practices can go a long way in protecting sensitive patient data. Secondly, healthcare providers and institutions should adopt a proactive approach to detecting and responding to cyber threats. This involves regularly monitoring network activity, implementing intrusion detection systems, and conducting penetration testing to identify vulnerabilities. By actively identifying and addressing security weaknesses, healthcare organizations can reduce the likelihood of data breaches and minimize the potential impact. Additionally, legislation and regulations need to be strengthened to hold healthcare organizations accountable for safeguarding patient data. Stricter penalties for data breaches and non-compliance with security standards can incentivize organizations to invest in cybersecurity measures and prioritize the protection of health records.
The increasing value of health records in the digital age has made them an attractive target for criminals. With the ease of access and the potential for significant financial gain, cybercriminals are incentivized to exploit vulnerabilities within healthcare systems and monetize stolen data. However, by prioritizing cybersecurity, adopting proactive measures, and strengthening legislation, healthcare organizations can mitigate the risks associated with the increasing value of health records and protect the privacy and security of their patients.
Stefani Goerlich: Hello and welcome to Securing Sexuality. The podcast where we discuss the intersection of intimacy-
Wolf Goerlich: -and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich.
Stefani: He's a hacker, and I'm Stefani Goerlich.
Wolf: She's a sex therapist, and together we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in a digital age.
Stefani: Today, I have a question for you, love of my life. I was reading an article. It's actually a little bit of an older article, but it just crossed my computer this week about a hack in Australia. Hackers broke into Australia's largest health insurer and stole a whole bunch of customer data. And this first came to my attention because one of the things that they did, which, um, shitty–is they released the records of people who had had abortions, which just seemed cruel and unnecessary. But that was just like a mean, little like diversion from their primary goal, which was to steal the records. Like they didn't do it as a form of like social activism to out the people that it had pregnancy terminations. They just kind of did that on their way towards whatever else they were going to do with these records, which made me wonder, why are these something that people steal?
Wolf: Well, first, I want to address the use of the term hacker in this news article. As you would imagine, that wrinkled me. You know, there's a lot of misunderstanding and misuse of that term. A criminal is a criminal. A criminal can enact a crime through a number of ways. Right. You can rob a bank. You can do extortion. You can run drugs. You can sell data breaking the systems and sell data. What is behind that is individual tactics, but a criminal is still a criminal. So one of the things that always frustrates me is you don't see someone going. Oh, car drivers have caused a huge amazing incident, and police are swarming them and trying to stop these car drivers. No, you say the criminals were driving a getaway car, and now they're being followed by the police. You know what I mean? That's the person that really annoys me. But to your point criminals, when they steal these records, be it payment card records or health care records, they're stealing them usually to sell in the black market to sell on the dark Web.
Stefani: They're selling it on the dark Web, but I'm still not understanding the what about this makes the money like I would think that they would want my credit card numbers or my Social Security numbers. So what? What is the value in stealing my my medical records?
Wolf: Well, because credit card records aren't worth that much anymore. It used to be, uh, you know all about the credit card, like the turn of the century. What criminals were trying to do to make money was to steal a credit card, and then they would, you know, run up fraudulent charges on those cards. But then and this is like if you ever, like, do you remember economics like supply and demand that whole like, Oh, if you have more supply, then your price goes down right? If there's more demand, your price goes up, you remember that. So it was almost that exact story around 10 years ago. First, in 2013, a target gets breached and something like 40 million credit card and debit cards get stolen. And the next year, uh, not even a year later. I don't think Home Depot gets, uh, gets, uh, attacked. There's a data breach and there's another 56 million cards. So suddenly, what used to be Oh, we'll steal a card from here and we'll steal a card from there. And maybe we'll steal 10 cards and then we'll we may print the cards or we may use them on an online service. Suddenly, it went from being like tens to hundreds to thousands to millions 100 million cards on the market. So, like overnight, the price of a credit card that a criminal could get when they're selling basically like dropped dramatically–dropped dramatically. And today, I think, um, the health records are like worth 50 times that of a credit card.
Stefani: I would never have imagined 50 times that that blows me away. So that was a really long time ago. Why is this still happening now? What is the incentive today? You know, one of the things that everybody is noticing these days is that the price of everything has gone up. We we are living in times when eggs and gas are crazy, expensive. So why is my credit card information still so low? Why hasn't that rebounded over the last 10 years or so?
Wolf: Right? Inflation has hit everything else. Everything. We're paying money off our credit cards, uh, has gone up, you know, in in part it goes back to our Valentine's. You remember? For a while I used to take you to a city which shall not be named. When I was working for an organisation that shall not be named and every Valentine's Day, I would go out there and I would work on their payment systems. Do you remember that?
Stefani: I do. Yeah, that was some of our I'm gonna go with most creative, perhaps least romantic. Valentine's Day experiences.
Wolf: Oh, I think there's a little bit of romance in there. There was some romance.
Stefani: Nothing says Valentine's Day, like a trip to the two screen movie theatre and the farm supply store, because that's all that exists for a 20 mile radius.
Wolf: Well, when I was doing that, I was I was working on, uh, payment card security. So PCI-DSS is the the standard. And, uh, that came out originally again. Turn, You know, beginning of the century around 2006 the PCI data security standard DSS comes out and in 2010, a new version comes out, but it's still lacking teeth, and it's not very specific, and you could be compliant with PCI the the early versions and still have things that happen, like Target and Home Depot. But Target and Home Depot happened. Other major breaches happen around that time, and they come out with version three and they rapidly iterate it from 2013 to around 2018. And so the standards get higher, the security gets better. Uh, and our Valentine's days get more romantic and around, uh, around that time because the security was continuing to get better and at the same time, the marketplace. The criminal marketplace was really shifting away from payment credit cards. Why would you go back? Right? Why would you go back to something that's not making you much money? That is very hard to get. And we reached, um, PCI DSS version four last year. Uh, which is a pretty good standard at this point in time. It's a pretty does a pretty good job, uh, at protecting. So the the market shifted now supply and demand, you would think would also drive down the cost of health records, because in 2022 there was, like, hundreds of healthcare data breaches affecting something like 52 million patients. And so you would be like, Well, wait a minute. There's 52 million credit cards on it and the price went down. Now we have 52 million healthcare patients. The price should surely go down. But because the market had shifted because the the criminals have gotten much better at getting money out of those cards or out of those records and because the payment side of things has gotten more secure, the value just never went back up on those, uh, stolen cards.
Stefani: I understand why somebody would steal my credit card. I understand why somebody would steal my Social Security number. Side note. Funny story. That you would have winced in pain had you known me when it happened. Like, 20 years ago. I got a random credit card in the mail, and I don't mean like a pre-approval offer. I mean, like, they sent me the card and said here You're pre-approved and this is yours now, And I called them and I said, Look, I am 23 years old working part time with a toddler. I guarantee you, I did not get this card. And they're like, No, no, we checked. It's yours. But I'm like, I promise you something has gone wrong somewhere. My credit is not worthy of this card. And they go ‘Nope, nope. We promise you are pre-approved we We have checked it. It is yours.’ And that still didn't feel right for me and I. I think I used it to, like, buy groceries once or twice, and I felt really, really guilty about it. And I called them back again. I'm like, there is no way this card is mine. And when I got to a supervisor’s supervisor’s supervisor, they found that, um actually, somehow my name had gotten linked to my then Mother-in-law's credit. And a card that was supposed to go to her as a PRE-APPROVED card somehow ended up with my name on it sent to me, which A) shows me how easily credit card fraud can happen, especially if people don't question when they get a magical mystery card in the mail. But also in untangling all of this at one point to somebody in their fraud investigation team, said, You know, there's somebody in like Texas or Arizona that's using your Social Security number, right? Like you don't live in Texas or Arizona and I'm like, No, no, I live in Michigan and they're like and you're definitely not a guy. I'm like, Nope, definitely not a guy. And like and you're not Hispanic, I'm like, also not Hispanic. Why are you asking me all of this? They said, Well, your Social Security number is also attached to a very traditional Hispanic men's name in Texas, Arizona? And I said, Well, is he like taking out credit cards or loans in my name? And they're like, No, like, does he have rental agreements, mortgages in my name? They're like No, like, so what's he using it for? And they said, Well, we think he's just using it to work. I said, Was he paying my taxes? And they said Yes, and I'm like, I don't care, Let him have it. More power to him contribute to the economy, my dude, and I know that you would not have supported that choice. But that showed me at least that you know the reason why somebody might buy a Social Security number or might like buy a credit card number. But what is the incentive for health records? Knowing that I got three co covid boosters is not going to let somebody work in Texas. So what is the value that these records hold? I don't get it.
Wolf: First up, I love the story. Uh, in so far as it really highlights the difference between, like the the social worker and the advocate and the security professional, the hacker I'm like, you did what? And you're like, Well, I was helping them. Let them let them go and get a job. I could undoubtedly buy your social security number, not not necessarily yours specifically because we're looking for someone specific the price goes up, But I could buy your Social Security number for less than a dollar right now, less than a dollar.
Stefani: And if all I wanna do is work somewhere, that's probably a dollar well spent, but that blows me away when I think about how we're taught to protect our social security numbers and everything that our Social Security numbers are linked to. I am surprised that you can get it for a dollar.
Wolf: Yeah, and if you go to credit cards, I mentioned credit cards aren't worth that much anymore. But you can buy a credit card for around $5 so a credit card is is worth five times that as a Social Security number. Now, I'll tell you, it's much easier as a individual to get a different credit card than it is to get a different Social Security number. Um, so yes. Please, please, please, please, please protect your Social Security numbers, folks, it is, uh, unfortunately, there's been so many compromises that they're pretty much worthless. By contrast, I was telling you that like a health record is worth like 50 times health records for one person receive, on average, $250 for a record.
Stefani: What makes them so valuable, though? Because with my Social Security number, somebody can work they with my credit card number. They can run up my bills and buy a whole bunch of stuff. What can they do with my health records that makes it worth 250 times what my social Security number is worth.
Wolf: Well, I mean, as I get to this, the normal, uh, advice I always give applies, right As I'm gonna give some scenarios, keep in mind that you'd want to check these scenarios with the frequency and the likelihood of them actually occurring. A plane can crash, but it doesn't crash that often, right? When we think about risk, and I explained the scenarios Go. Oh, my goodness. It's terrible. I always would like to just explain and reiterate that a lot of these things don't happen very often, and I was trying to actually find good statistics on how often these things happen. And at the moment, there doesn't seem to be good reporting, like I can tell you how frequently Ransomware happens from the FBI. But I can't tell you these sort of things, which is frustrating me as a security professional and actually listeners, if anyone has good stats on this or good data, would love it if you could reach out to us. But, you know, from the first blush, what am I going to do with this information? Uh, I could do insurance fraud, right? I can use a stolen medical record to file fraudulent insurance claims and convert them into money that way. And as we all know, health records, uh, rather, health insurance is very, very expensive. So I could do insurance fraud if I needed to get a hold of drugs, specifically prescription drugs. I could use those health information and go to the doctor and and obtain medications. And again, I would put them on my insurance and and have them through there. So just at first glance and there's other ways that this information can get misused. But the first way they get turned into money is by converting that record into a health care transaction, either medical insurance or prescription.
Stefani: OK, so the prescription piece makes a lot of sense to me. I am a social worker, and I do I in. In our state, I am required to take a certain number of pain management continuing education credits every year, even though I'm a sex therapist in private practice with no prescribing capacity whatsoever. And a part of why that's become a requirement is because of the opioid epidemic and we are all so hyper aware of prescription abuse that that actually makes a lot of sense to me. And I can see how somebody that might want to access really highly controlled substances, might be willing to pay $250 to have access to a file that gives them the history that would let them get those drugs. But I don't necessarily understand the other pieces. I don't necessarily understand the insurance fraud piece. Can you tell me like, how How would having my medical record make somebody money? I get the get them drugs. But how would it become lucrative for them?
Wolf: Well, let's suppose you had someone who needs a medical treatment. They can't afford that medical treatment. They would go to get this information and then pretend to be you to get the medical treatment. Alternatively, you know, insurance fraud is a much bigger category. Lots of people submit lots of things to the insurance. Alternatively, you just make up a procedure, and it's it's not necessarily someone in another state. Pretend to be you. It is one of these criminal organisations that's filing insurance claims and says that you had a whole bunch of operations and, you know, Please, you know, pay back these medical fees.
Stefani: OK, that I can see. Um, what else? What what else are people doing with with my medical records? Are these being used? I mean, we started off talking about sort of the the abortion info dump. But is this being used for I'm gonna say non like personal reasons, Like, uh, obviously, feeding a a drug addiction or a need for substance is a very personal reason. Getting more money is a very personal reason. Are these being used for, like, political reasons or for social reasons? Is this something I know that when I was a cyber criminology student before my illustrious dropping out, you know, we talked a lot about sort of, like state actors, or like, people that are motivated by ideals or beliefs. And I'm curious if that factors into health care record theft at all.
Wolf: Well, state actors, for sure. Although I don't necessarily know that that's a very interesting topic for our audience or our podcast, But yeah, if you want to blackmail somebody if you want to do espionage. If you want to do insider threat, and you can get a hold of their health care information. There's something in there that's, you know, uh, disparaging or can be used against somebody, right? Let's suppose I am a state actor and I want to get into a facility. And I know that people with access one of them or a handful of them have, you know, Children or loved ones with medical problems. I could use that information. So certainly there is that avenue. And again, I want to emphasise I don't have any statistics on the likelihood of frequency. This is just very plausible. On the topic of securing sexuality, however, on the topic of you know, the story you brought up, there's a lot of stuff in these health records, right? I mean we can know anyone who's who's gotten an abortion and one of their early concerns after the Texas law was, you know, $10,000 is an attractive lure, right? So if there are bounty hunters who are looking for women who had an abortion, $10,000 is a good amount of money to make back on a $250 purchase of a medical record. So this was a very real concern, and you know, a lot of people were talking about it when that Medibank breach happened. Hey, what would happen if that happened in the United States? We're not out of the woods yet. We don't necessarily have good information yet, but it was reassuring, I think to see the Gomez case work its way through Texas courts. And the judge basically decided in that case, based on the provision of the Texas abortion law that you couldn't just bring a $10,000 suit, right? You actually had to show injury. You had to be a party to the abortion, So yeah, hopefully, maybe being optimistic, people are not going to buy a whole bunch of health records and turn them into cash using that law. But certainly there is still the possibility of people who are socially motivated or politically motivated looking for people who had abortions or people who had gender affirming care. Right? Any of these contested health care procedures are going to be in your health care records and are going to be accessible if you as a criminal, purchase them.
Stefani: OK, this might feel like a dumb question because I think we all understand that criminals don't necessarily follow the law. And, um, people that are acting in bad faith are not known for respecting public policy. But what about HIPAA? like, Do I have any protections here at all?
Wolf: Well, I mentioned how PCI DSS ratcheted up after the mega breaches. Uh, and between 2013 and 2022 went through a number of different version changes got stronger, got better. And PC DS S is all about protecting specific data. In that case, uh, cardholder data, credit cards, debit cards, those sort of things. HIPAA You know, health insurance Portability and Accountability act. HIPAA is the counterpart that's supposed to protect health care records. It's supposed to protect those records Now. HIPAA is not went through a series of improvements of rapid improvements following 56 million health care records being stolen. So there is a a significant problem in HIPAA's, uh, ability to keep pace of these changes in the, uh we call it the threat landscape, right? The changes in what criminals are doing. But yes, HIPAA should be guiding, um, guiding institutions around what they're protecting, uh, and how they're protecting it. And it should be driving the security up much like PCI DSS did for credit cards.
Stefani: So what do I do about this? Like my body is a valuable commodity which usually takes other forms when we're talking about sex and intimacy. But in this case, the actual information about my body is more valuable even than my financial records or my life records. In the case of Social Security, um, which is creepy to think about. So what can I do? What steps are out there to protect myself from this? Because I don't know that a lot of people think about their health records getting hacked or their health records being valuable. And, um, I started out just curious about this weird Australian breach, but the more I listen to you talk, the more I feel like most of our listeners, and you're kind of freaking me out.
Wolf: I'm sorry. I have a bad habit of doing that. Well, while I'm freaking you out. Can I freak you out about one more thing before I answer your question about what to do about it?
Stefani: You know, we're heading into October. It's spooky season. Lay it on me. What is the health care records horror story I need to be thinking of.
Wolf: Well, when we think about HIPAA and we think about health care records, it just protects your treatment plans and your personal information. It doesn't protect your metadata. So where you've been, what clinics, and what have you. It doesn't protect any related data. So social media posts, of course, are not going to be protected. Text messages back and forth with people about where you're going and what health care you're going to be doing is not going to be protected. Your location data. We've seen people try to get location data around anyone who's been to an abortion clinic or anyone who's been to a gender affirming care clinic. Right. Um, location data is not protected. Uh, obviously, period tracker apps are not protected. We've talked about that before on the show, so I did want to just spotlight that there's a lot of stuff that is not gonna be covered under HIPAA protections that I think for most people you would consider to be private information around your health care and your treatment plans.
Stefani: I don't like this at all. I will tell you this is why I, as a mental health provider, write my case notes the way I do. You know, I make sure that there's simply nothing in my records that could be used against my clients. So this is a huge part of why, um so if there's nothing I can do necessarily to protect myself, Per se…
Wolf: I didn't say that, there are things you can do.
Stefani: It doesn't feel like enough, though. The more you talk, the more anxious I become.
Wolf: Well, and this is why we do this show right to cover all the different avenues that you need to be thinking about to be mindful of. So you can have good security street smarts when we look at things you can do to protect yourself. First off, um, you know, make sure you're working with the institution that has ne breach. Now you may go. How do I know that? Check the show notes. I'm going to put a link in where they're tracking all the health care breaches and you can look up your institution and see if they're on that list. I looked about ours before, and I was happy to note, happy to tell you love of my life that they're not. So we're in a good spot there, so work with institutions that have a good track record of of security. Watch your mail. You know, those annoying breach letters we all get, We usually all ignore. Watch your mail. You know, pay attention to those I know no one likes to do that, I myself become very jaded and ignore it. But once you know that you have been caught up in one of these breaches, you need to be very careful to make sure that none of these fraudulent efforts are carried out. And if you are in one of the minorities that may be very concerned about their health care records, you're gonna wanna know that that may be coming. So you can you can be prepared to start figuring out what your plans are. Similarly so that the annoying breach letter is the early indication. The later indication goes right back to the story you're telling me like, uh, you know, credit cards in your name. Watch your credit score. Have credit alerting. If it is medical fraud, you're going to have unpaid medical bills, and those medical bills are going to be sent to collections and because they’re collections are going to show up on your credit score so as a sort of, like late warning. But you still have time to respond and make sure you're not on the hook for these things. Your credit score system.
Stefani: This feels like a lot.
Wolf: That's three things an institution you can trust. Watch the mail and pay attention to those breach letters, even though I know we all get fatigue from it and have alerting set up in your credit score.
Stefani: You know, we we've unpacked this. We've talked about solutions we've talked about uses and why it happens. Um, what can What can you say that will leave me walking away from this episode Feeling better, Baby. This has been, you know, both as somebody who goes to the doctor on occasion and is a health care provider myself. This feels like a lot. I don't know that this is something that people think about often, and we're all pretty used to. Oh. Yep. Target Let my credit card information leak. But when people think about Oh, my I don't know, my fertility treatment is out there. My erectile dysfunction information is out there. My cancer diagnosis is out there. Tell me something that's gonna make me feel better about all of this, love.
Wolf: Well, at least it's not being used to hunt down people at the moment.
Stefani: So the best we can get is at least stochastic care isn't a huge issue yet.
Wolf: Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Now and there, there are things to do if you do find this now, mind you, as you've been listening along and we got into HIPAA, into Texas, Uh, you know, for our international listeners, you probably have gleaned that this predominantly US only, uh, episode. So I apologise for that. But if you are in the US and this does hit you, there's a couple of different things you can do. There's a nonprofit that is set up to help, um, help people and help potential victims minimise risk and go through it. We actually should have a mom. Now that I'm thinking about it, we should reach out to them. But the Identity theft Resource centre or ITRC again, there'll be a link to them in the show notes. So they're available. If you do see something on your credit score or if you get one of those annoying breach letters and you're very concerned because of your health care information or you know the very specific concerns, uh, I would engage them, also FTC, which is coming up more and more right. Federal Trade Commission comes up a lot in these types of conversations. The Federal Trade Commission FTC has a website for identity theft that also has some good resources and can help navigate the legal side of things.
Stefani: I am at a loss. I feel a little bit better. I guess there are some resources, some recourse, some preventative and proactive things I can do. Um, where do you wanna go from here? Love of my life. What what's our What's our big takeaway? Our call to action for people this week?
Wolf: As a call to action, keep in mind that a data breach is not just Oh, I've got to get a new credit card or oh, there, there's set me up for credit monitoring. You're right. We've gotten really used to that right? 20 years into this century. It seems like there's a a breach a day, and usually it doesn't really impact us. Usually if we're using a credit card, yeah, we we'll get a new credit card side note, which you didn't talk about. This episode. Make sure you don't use debit cards. Always use a credit card much better protection. If you always use a credit card, be vigilant. Watch your information. Pay attention to these breaches when they impact health care records. Because you're right. So much of it is so incredibly private, so incredibly personal that when we think about what safe sex looks like in the digital age, safe sex looks like privacy and privacy looks like paying attention to risks of our privacy and acting accordingly. Part of that is gonna be reactive. Part of that is going to be responsive, but part of that can be proactive by choosing health care partners and providers who have a good proven track record of keeping our information safe, which is why we're going to again put that link in the show notes about where breaches have occurred so you can make an informed decision.
Stefani: And, as you said, read the stuff that comes from your insurance companies. Read the denial letters, read the explanation of benefits that you get. And I say that as somebody that gets a lot of those and they're boring and we tend to just, like, skim them or not even open them and throw them away. And I know you already said read the mail from your insurance company. But take the time to review those, because if you're seeing an explanation of a benefit that you don't remember using, that could be a red flag. And if you're seeing a denial of a claim that you don't remember claiming–also a red flag. So you know all of these together, it's just pay, being mindful and paying attention and being aware of the risk, which I was unaware of until you told me about it today. So thanks for freaking me out, love.
Wolf: My pleasure. I'm always happy to freak you out I'm not honestly, I wish there was. I usually like episodes where this much better news. But anyways, thank you so much for tuning in to securing sexuality. Your source of information you need to protect yourself and your relationships.
Stefani: Securing sexuality is brought to you by the Bound Together Foundation a 501(c)3 nonprofit. From the bedroom to the cloud, we're here to help you navigate safe sex in a digital age.
Wolf: Be sure to check out our website SecuringSexuality.com for links to more information about the topics we've discussed here today as well as our live events.
Stefani: And join us again for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology. Have a great week, everyone.