Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
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the matrix as a trans metaphor: decoding the visual imagery
The Matrix movies, released between 1999 and 2003, have captivated audiences with their mind-bending storyline and groundbreaking visual effects. However, beneath the surface of this sci-fi action franchise lies a complex and thought-provoking allegory that resonates deeply with the transgender community. Join us as we delve into the metaphors and symbolism within the Matrix movies and explore their personal impact on the trans community.
The Matrix as a Metaphor for Gender Dysphoria:
At its core, the Matrix can be seen as a metaphor for the experience of gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the distress a person feels as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth not aligning with their true gender identity. Similarly, the characters in the Matrix - Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus - are trapped in a simulated reality, unaware of their true selves. Neo, played by Keanu Reeves, represents the transgender individual who begins to question their assigned reality and seeks to find their authentic self. The red pill, offered to Neo by Morpheus, symbolizes the moment of self-discovery and acceptance for many transgender individuals. Just as Neo awakens to the truth of the Matrix, trans individuals often experience a profound awakening to their true gender identity.
The Matrix as a Symbol of Transition:
Throughout the Matrix trilogy, the process of transitioning is metaphorically depicted through Neo's journey. As Neo learns to harness his powers and redefine his reality, he undergoes a transformation that parallels the physical, emotional, and social changes experienced by those who transition. The Wachowski sisters, who wrote and directed the Matrix movies, are transgender themselves, and their personal experiences undoubtedly influenced the way they portrayed Neo's journey. By using the Matrix as a canvas for this allegory, they have crafted a powerful narrative that resonates deeply with trans individuals, providing them with a sense of validation and empowerment.
The Agents as a Representation of Society's Resistance:
In the Matrix movies, the agents serve as a metaphor for the societal forces that resist and oppress transgender individuals. Just as the agents relentlessly pursue Neo, attempting to prevent him from realizing his true potential, trans individuals often face discrimination, ignorance, and prejudice when they choose to live authentically. The battles between Neo and the agents can be seen as symbolic of the internal and external struggles that trans individuals face throughout their journey. By defeating the agents and breaking free from the constraints of the Matrix, Neo becomes a symbol of hope and resilience for the trans community.
Personal Impact and Empowerment:
The Matrix movies have had a profound impact on the trans community, providing them with a sense of visibility, representation, and empowerment. Seeing a character like Neo, who questions societal norms and fights for personal authenticity, resonates deeply with trans individuals who often navigate a similar path. The Matrix trilogy has become a cultural touchstone for the trans community, with many finding solace and inspiration in its themes and symbolism. It has sparked discussions and debates within the community, fostering a sense of community and solidarity. By recognizing the Matrix movies as a trans allegory, trans individuals can find validation and strength in their own journeys.
The Matrix movies, with their deep metaphors and symbolism, serve as a powerful allegory for the transgender experience. Through the character of Neo and his journey of self-discovery and defiance, trans individuals find representation and empowerment. The Wachowski sisters, as transgender filmmakers, have crafted a narrative that not only entertains but also provides a profound sense of validation for the trans community. The Matrix movies will continue to be a beacon of hope and inspiration for trans individuals, reminding them that they too have the power to break free from societal constraints and embrace their true selves.
Stefani Goerlich: Hello and welcome to Securing Sexuality. The podcast where we discuss the intersection of intimacy-
Wolf Goerlich: -and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich.
Stefani: He's a hacker. And I'm Stefani Goerlich.
Wolf: She's a sex therapist. And together, we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in a digital age. And today, the form of this conversation takes shape around one of my favorite movie series, The Matrix. We have Tilly Bridges on. Tilly is the author of “Begin Transmission: The Trans Allegories of the Matrix.” Tilly so good to have you with us.
Tilly Bridges: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
Wolf: You know, I wanted to to get your sense of what motivated this book, right? Because the Matrix has a lot of messages in it. You know, philosophers will point to the brain-in-a-jar and Plato’s cave. Sci-fi fans will point to things like Ghost in the Shell. Being an old-school hacker, I love every time they pick up a telephone and then all the coding metaphors. What drove you to write this book and really pull to the forefront the underlying trans metaphor.
Tilly: So I always say that this was an accidental book, and it was because I didn't set out to write it. Um, when I came out publicly as a trans woman in the summer of 2020 I realized that, especially among trans women, I still had a whole lot of privilege, and I wanted to use that to help people if I could. And I'm a writer. And so I began chronicling my transition and things about society that you might not realize or know if you're cis or if you're not trans or gender non-conforming in some way. And outside of that binary you see a whole lot of things that you can't see from the inside of it. And not long after I started doing that, people started asking me about the Matrix because it was around that time that the Wachowskis had come out and said that they intended there to be a trans allegory in the movies. And I'm primarily a fiction writer, a screenwriter, animation writer, uh, television podcast, comics, all that stuff. And so people kept asking me about it if I could explain it because I was trans, I'm a writer. I was writing about these things. They thought I could tell them what that meant. What what these movies were trying to say. nAnd so I had always been a huge fan of the movies for reasons that I couldn't explain as well as I can. Now, I sat down to Re-watch the first one, and I thought I would get, you know, an essay out of it. Maybe too. And I ended up with 24 that covered the entire series because I was so surprised how incredibly deep and specific they are to what it means to be a trans person in this in this world, in our society and I had to pause it, you know, like every 10 to 15 seconds to take more notes because it was like that Granular, that specific. Um and so, yeah, it was an accidental book. Once I finished all of them. I was like, Hey, that's enough! That's enough to have a whole book. And people kept asking me if I would, uh, turn them into a book. So I did. And that's where it came from.
Stefani: Do me a favor. For those of us who, you know, we've been alive for the last 25-30 years. We're not entirely under a rock. We're aware of the Matrix Series. But for those of us who might not be hardcore sci-fi people, I would include myself in that, just kind of give us a high-level overview of The Matrix. So what media this all includes. I know that there are several movies. I know that there's, like, other graphic novels and things so kind of tell us about the universe that you're writing about and what pieces of that that you focused on in in writing your book primarily.
Tilly: It's a series of four films and animated shorts. There have also been some comics and video games that tied in. I don't cover any of that in the book. I only cover the four main movies and the animated shorts that sort of were released in an anthology together, and the high-level, I guess the surface level story of it is a humans versus machines story where the machines have taken over Earth and are using humans as literal power batteries. To keep humans subdued and pacified, they invented the matrix, which is a sort of virtual reality that all humans live in and think is the real world. That's pretty much the basics. The four main movies are about, uh, the lead character sort of waking up to the realization of what reality is, what the world really is and fighting back against those machines for humans to be able to be, uh I don't know. I guess free is is probably the best way to put it.
Wolf: And when you go over these movies, one of the things I like about how you laid out your book, uh, because there's such depth and such richness in just passing scenes or a colour, choice or choice of a jacket. I love how you like break out the beginning of each chapter by saying at this time, Mark, you look at that time mark and this time, Mark, you look for this. And by the way, when he says this, think about this, it's really well done. How you pull it all together. So, I love that one of the things I would encourage you. I was reading this book to do and I. I don't know if you tell her you meant to do this or not, but this is the kind of the approach I took it. It was actually like, Watch the movie while you're scrolling through back through the book.
Tilly: That's the I think, the preferred way because so much of the trans allegory is conveyed visually through what you see on screen what you don't see on screen, where characters are in relation to each other, where the colors are where the colors aren't. And, um so it very important I encourage folks to, like pause at the time stamps that I mentioned and really, really look at what the Wachowskis are showing you and what's there and why the think about why those decisions were made, what they're trying to convey with that visual imagery. And, um so yeah, I'm I'm really glad you did that. I think that's the best way to go.
Stefani: What is it about these films? The story that drew you in? But I mean, obviously you appreciated them before sort of the allegorical piece or the life mirroring art or art imitating life piece came in. But what was it that first made you go, Wow, These are amazing!
Tilly: If you're looking at an outside of the allegory, The first one especially, uh, really revolutionized sci fi movies, action movies, special effects. It did all kinds of things that nobody had ever seen before. The Wachowskis are incredibly creative and inventive, and so just on that level, they really changed the medium. I think a lot of our movies and television that we have today owe a lot to what they were the first ones to do with those series. But on a deeper level, you know, there's something that deep within me, connected with the message of the world is not as you think it is. Something about it is broken. And you thought it was you that's broken, but it's not. It's the world. It's the expectations they laid on you that are wrong, that are forcing you to be someone that you're not someone that you never were. Someone that you don't wanna be. When I first saw these movies, long before I knew I was Trans, it connected with me on this level that I just could not understand. I could not have put into words what it meant, because the first movie, especially, is about realizing that you are trans and deciding what to do about it, choosing to transition and what that entails, what that looks like all the ways your life will change. And so, for a lot of people, I think especially when they first see it. Well, OK, there's this parlance in in the trans community that's called, uh, your egg cracking. Eggs are trans people who don't know they're trans yet and your egg cracking is the moment that you realize. And the first movie cracked a whole lot of eggs. Uh, because that's exactly what it is about intrinsically foundation. And so, um, it didn't do that for me, but it was probably the first, the first tiny, itty bitty little crack in my shell that said, Wait a minute, something is off here, and I can feel that, but I don't know what it is, and it took me way too long to figure that out. But Um, I think that's the big connection. I think that a lot of people have with it, even cisgender folks. I mean, you know, cis people can know what it's like to have expectations laid on you by your parents or by society, by gender norms, and feel like you're supposed to live up to them when that's not who you are. It's not who you wanna be. It feels wrong to you. So even if you don't know what it's like to be assigned to the wrong gender, you can understand that sort of fundamental thing, I think of not wanting to be who people tell you you have to be and just wanting to find your true self and be true to who you are. So, I think that's probably the biggest thing, especially about the first one.
Wolf: Yeah, and following on that first one. Obviously, we go into Reloaded and Animatrix and Revolutions and whatnot. It's really also not only a sense of realizing they maybe don't fit and that you're not broken, that the world is. It's also, in many ways, a rebellion story, right? It's a underdog story. I'm not Trans but there are many ways that that story resonated with me. And also, I've think about this podcast in a way of somewhat being, you know, an act of rebellion. How do we help everyone who's going through that moment of cracking their egg or through that moment of just trying to figure out and be true to themselves, their desires? How do we help everyone navigate this technology? And granted, it's not giant robots shooting at us, and we're not plugged in, but in a very real way, we are plugged in, right? So when you're going through this, what were some of the like? The things that struck you in terms of how we can navigate technology, how we can navigate, uh, this this rebellion.
Tilly: I think what it most poignantly has to say about about rebellion, uh, is that if we want to get to a better world, not just for trans people, but for all of us, where we can all exist together in peace. We have to get there together. We can't do it alone. We can't do it by fighting each other. We can't do it by hating each other. You have to choose not to hate people who are different from you. You have to choose to try to understand them, understand where they're coming from or even if you can't understand them, be like I don't need to understand you to respect you and that's OK. So the the movies very profoundly talk about how we need each other to get through. There's a very real thing that the movies discuss. Uh, that is why most of it is all very, very real for trans people. But, um, one of the key ways more trans people can realize their trans and feel like they can also transition and come out and live their lives and find trans joy and be happy is by seeing the other trans people who've done it before us by seeing them out there, we know we can do it. Representation matters. If you can see it, you can be it. And the movies pointed out time and time again that just by being ourselves just by living true to who we are, it inspires others to do the same, even when we're not trying to. And I even saw that in my own life when when I came out publicly, I thanked all of these trans women, most of them were writers who made me feel like I could transition and be happy, be myself, and still have a writing career. And if I hadn't seen them, if I couldn't see them doing it, I don't know if I would have felt like I could have done it. And that's so vital. And I think it goes across all of our society that way. We have to work toward understanding consciously. It has to be a conscious choice. We have to choose to try to work together and and do our best to understand and respect each other, regardless of you know, any differences.
Wolf: Is that where, uh, Tilly's Trans Tuesdays fits in,
Tilly: Um, a little bit, Yeah. I mean, that's with the privilege that I have being very, very white. I did not lose my wife, my son, my home, a job family. I didn't lose any of that. And so many Trans people do. They lose a lot of it. And so I have so much less to deal with than so many others that that that was my way of giving back that, uh, because writing is what I do, and so I can write about these things. I can put things into words that maybe other people are having trouble explaining, and maybe they can show it to people in their lives that will help them be better understood. Or maybe they'll just read it and feel seen because that was one of the most important parts for me about the movies, was that they made made me feel seen and understood in a way so little media does. And that's so vital because it made me feel like I'm not an alien. I'm not weird. This is what it is to be a trans person, and that's OK, and it's cool to be who you are, and everybody has been through this before. I'm not alone, and that's a really vital thing. I think for everyone to know.
Stefani: The idea of being seen and understood as people is so important. Um, I want to read a little excerpt from your book, but I want to kind of frame it up in a way that hopefully you'll find amusing and what it made me think of, Uh, I have a book coming out in October, and in one section, the sensitivity reader that my publisher has all of their titles go through, actually flagged it and said, I think that this needs to be revised. I think that this is problematic. It seems like the writer here is really objectifying trans people, and I was very confused by this. And when I went back to the section, it was two paragraphs I had written about the objectification of trans people and how painful and uncomfortable that was for them and how we should struggle to avoid objectifying trans people. And I just thought it was really funny the the disconnect there. But you talk about the same thing in your writing. You say, you know, there's one way our sis binary matrix society has said it's OK for trans women to exist, and that is as objects of fetishization for a long time a long time. Trans women have been fetishized. We've been turned into nothing more than objects of desire, usually by cis men who never admit it publicly. Trans women have been a big niche fetish since Porns existed, and I wanna clarify again. There's nothing wrong with Trans people being in porn, just like there's nothing wrong with sis people being in porn. I'm sex-positive, and there's nothing wrong with consensual sex work. The problem becomes when the performers are turned into objects rather than people. Can you talk a little bit about the objectification of trans people, trans bodies, and how that impacts you and your community and your experience of connection?
Tilly: Yeah, it's a really complex, difficult thing because sort of tying into what I said before, Uh, so many Trans people when they come out, will lose homes, families, jobs, and a lot of trans people, especially trans women, after that happens, find it very difficult to find housing, find it very difficult to find a job. We are discriminated against actively in hiring in like all fields. Even though that's illegal, it still happens. They'll find other reasons for it, uh, to say that was You know why they're not hiring you, but it still happens. And so what ends up happening, especially for trans women, is that they feel forced into sex work. I know so many Trans women who are sex workers, and some of them have chose it and are happy doing it, and that is wonderful. But I know so many who have done it because they had no other choice. They had no other way to survive. And no person trans or should feel like they have to be forced into sex work just to live. That's terrible. So, it's a really complex thing because, you know, they they need money to survive. But they have to objectify themselves. They have to lean into all of the stereotypes that assist people lay upon us and like, it's so difficult because chasers are a really big problem for trans women. Those are guys who literally chase us around, usually it's across the Internet. Sometimes it is in person, in the real world, um, fetishizing us and sending us overtly sexual, uh, DMS and messages that we didn't ask for did not encourage. And these guys, they are not out there supporting trans rights. They're not supporting trans women. They're not going to. There's like 8000 GoFundMe’s for trans people who need to pay for medical procedures that they need, that their insurance won't cover that need new housing. They need to escape dangerous situations, and they are not out there supporting those people. They are not voting for the people who will treat us as human beings and believe we deserve human rights. They only care about us in terms of if we can get them off, and that is it. And once you don't respond positively to that, it immediately comes out. They turn transphobic, they turn violent, it becomes this vitriol. And they wouldn't won't even admit in person that not only are they attracted to trans people, but they won't, you know, they're very often, uh, transphobic right-wing kind of guys. Um and so it's It's a really, uh, awful place that a lot of Trans people find themselves in. And unfortunately, I don't think there's there's any kind of easy solution to it. We'd have to basically cure, you know, society's transphobia, and that's a really big task that's gonna take a very long time.
Stefani: Sadly, I have had many clients, many friends in situations like the one that you described, and I agree it's a really frustrating seems like the wrong word, but I don't want to speak out of turn in describing somebody else's experience, either. But it's a difficult, difficult situation to be thrust into and a profoundly unfair one.
Wolf: So, when you're when you're referring to transitioning as body hacking and and I think you make up a really good point I mean that you mentioned that everyone wears glasses, everyone takes ibuprofen. Can you talk a little bit about the body hacking side of things and your views on that aspect?
Tilly: Sure. So body hacking. It's not a term I invented. I heard someone else use it years and years ago. And unfortunately, I cannot remember who, but it applies to basically anything we do to change or aid our bodies that make our lives better. So, in the examples I mentioned that you read out there wearing glasses to help, uh, with eyesight problems taking ibuprofen If you have a headache. People who have a drink to relax and it goes, you know so much further, it can be corrective knee surgery to help you walk better. It can be a cane. It can be a wheelchair. It's medications that you take to alleviate, you know, whatever problems you may have, that's all body hacking. And when it's important to realize it in that term because so many people treat the medical care that trans people need as if it's something weird or alien or different or problematic. And it's no different than what cis people do. You know, gender dysphoria. Most Trans people have it. It's really awful. It can cause depression. It can cause really high suicide rates. It's a really big problem, and these medical procedures, medicines, surgeries can help alleviate that or correct it. And that's all it is. It's we're trying to correct. You know, a medical problem that every single medical association in the US has said is a real medical condition, and this is the way you treat it with these medications and these surgeries, if needed. And so it's important, I think, for people to understand that it's not any different than what other people do. And in fact, there's been a real increase lately of cis people getting gender confirmation surgeries. But nobody calls them that, even though that's what they are. So there's like, if a cis woman has breast cancer and gets a mastectomy, and then she chooses to get implants to sort of restore her body to the way it looked before the surgery. That's a gender confirmation procedure. You are doing it because you don't feel like yourself. You don't feel like the woman you know yourself to be because your body looks wrong. There's even more extreme than what Trans people do. I think is there has been a real uptick lately in cis men, specifically getting leg lengthening procedures where they go in and actively break the leg and put extenders in to make them taller. And why do they want to be taller? Because society says CIS men are supposed to be tall, especially taller than CIS women, and for men who are shorter, being taller confirms their gender, right? So it's body hacking is all of that. And we have to realise that it's, uh, just as OK for trans people to do and have, as it is for CIS, people who do it all the time.
Stefani: I have people in my life that I know who recently had a bilateral mastectomy and not because they had cancer, not because they had gender dysphoria, but simply because they had reached a point in their life where they were ageing. They felt sexual in different ways. They felt their bodily agency and sense of self in different ways. And they were like, I'm done. I don't want to deal with these anymore. They're not adding to my life. They're not necessary for my happiness, identity, or pleasure. And I would rather not deal with them. And they had an elective bilateral mastectomy, and you are correct. Nobody said a word about that procedure.
Tilly: Yeah, it's it. You know, it's actually, um, extra interesting to see the hypocrisy in the states that are, for example, banning uh, puberty blockers for young kids. And they–the people doing that. Even though puberty blockers are perfectly safe. They do cause no permanent changes. They have been used in cis Children with precocious puberty for decades. Uh, they will rant and rave about surgeries being performed on trans kids, which is a thing that does not happen. Nobody is doing it. But when they write these laws that say that can't be done, they always put in a carve out to allow surgeries on intersex Children that are forced on them by their parents, who want them to conform to one or the other gender. And that's the whole game right there because they're not concerned about Children having surgeries forced on them, which is not something that happens to trans kids. But it happens to the intersex kids, and they're not stopping it. They are expressly carving out and allowing that to continue because it upholds that gender binary because it takes an intersex child. And rather than letting them decide what they want to do with their body in the future, their parents can force them to conform to being a quote unquote CIS boy or girl, at least in appearance, outwardly, and so I think that that shows you where the real concern is every everywhere right there. I mean, so many teen girls still get, um, breast enhancements before they're 18. And their parents OK, it. And if it's OK for a CIS girl to do that, why on earth would it not be OK for a trans kid? And again, Trans kids aren't getting those surgeries in their teens, but plenty of CIS girls are. So, uh, the hypocrisy is right there for anybody who's just willing to look at it.
Wolf: So in the Matrix, we have a lot of things coming together to, you know, help people through their journey, right. We've got, uh, ships like the Nebuchadnezzar we've got, you know, cities like Zion. Uh, we've got the pumps in the machinery, honestly, one of my favorite scenes, and this is gonna sound so weird, but I love it when they go down to the bottom of the city and they look at all the machines, and, uh, the chance is like, it's kind of weird machines above us trying to kill us machines below us, trying to protect us in terms of, you know, Here. Now, 2020s. What is the machinery look like that's trying to protect us. What does the machinery look like that is aiding people on their journey?
Tilly: Um, well, the most important thing in terms of trans people is the trans community is the support we get from each other because one of the difficult things that we have to deal with is that sis people are the gatekeepers to everything that we need in life. They are the gatekeepers of our health care. Generally, trans doctors there are nowhere near enough to treat every trans person. Cis people are the ones making the laws determining when and if we can get our names and gender markers legally changed. They're the ones deciding if we are allowed to have health care. So, there's a really different feeling when you are only when a trans person is among only trans people. Because there are these people that understand what that is in a way that cis people can't even if they try, even if it's an ally with the most, you know, pure beautiful intentions, the best ally in every way. They're never gonna know what it's like to have to deal with somebody who does not like you and doesn't understand your very existence being the one that controls everything that you need to be who you are. So the community is vital in that because it can give us support, We can't get anywhere else. And I don't know that there's a lot of machinery involved with that. Although the the surgical techniques that are used, uh, by doctors in, uh, in the vast majority are, uh, you know, improving changing over time. Um, they're way better now than they used to be. And, the situations are generally getting better. Um, I mean, there's still a lot of issues. We still have a long way to go. But, like for people transitioning, say, back in the the eighties seventies nineties, uh, there were so many extra barriers put upon them like a Trans woman would have to “live as a woman” for a year or more before they would allow her to have any access to hormones or surgeries. And so that is arbitrary and random and completely unfair because, you know, she's not getting the care that she needs. And yet she's got to try to put on this front and impress these people. And all of that would be laden down with gender expectations. If you didn't conform to the way they thought a “woman” should be, then they were going to say, Well, you're not really putting forth the effort. You don't really want to be a woman. We're not going to give you this care. And thankfully, in in the US, that part has sort of gone by the wayside. Now, um, a lot of places, uh, informed consent is really, um, sort of taking off. It's still the minority, uh, of places. But there are There are places that exist now where you can just go in as an adult and say I am Trans. This is my informed consent. I want care for it. And they will start giving you hormones and, uh, helping you with your transition. And, uh, that can be life-changing for people. I mean, I didn't get that when I went to my insurance, which has covered all of my transition. Very thankfully, again, I'm very privileged in that way. I had to prove my existence as a woman to a psychiatrist. And if you think about having to try to prove to somebody what your gender is without being able to use any of your physical characteristics, that's a really difficult thing to do. I had to pull up every, uh, instance I could find from my life of where I felt wrong, where I felt like I was a girl. But I wasn't allowed to be a girl and why and what that was like. And this lady had to approve that and say, Yes, I believe you are Trans. You can have health care now, and that's that's kind of messed up. I would love to see informed consent really take off and be the standard. But considering half this country actively doesn't even want us to exist or have rights, uh feels a long way off.
Stefani: What is one or two things that our listeners could do to support trains people. Right now, we are living in a time when people want to be allies and are also very cautious about overstepping. How can people amplify your voice without drowning out your voices?
Tilly: An important thing to remember is that imperfect Allyship is better than no allyship. If you do nothing because you're afraid of getting it wrong, that's worse than trying. Um, so it's always important to try, um, the two biggest things that I always say to people who ask what they can do to support trans people and I, I truly believe they are the most powerful things that CIS people can do. The first, very obviously is You have to vote for the people who believe we deserve human rights. You cannot vote for the people who don't who are gonna take our health care away, who are going to make it impossible for us to live in public life by keeping us out of bathrooms and the second and the one that gets harder. Uh, for some people to deal with is that you have to stop tolerating transphobia in your friends and family. Um, and that really goes for any kind of, um, bigotry against any marginalized group. You can't just be like, Well, that's racist, Uncle Joe. And he's just like that. No, that's not cool. You have to tell racist Uncle Joe that he's racist and needs to stop. And if he doesn't, you stop inviting him to family functions until he learns his lesson. Or he just doesn't get to participate in the family anymore. You have to put the needs of the real human beings that are out here fighting for equality and basic human rights above your own comfort. That's the most important thing. Because if those people who are transphobic in your friends and family, we've all had them, they say something like it like that, Uh, that's transphobic, or are uneducated or ignorant, and you don't call them on it. They're gonna keep doing it. They're not gonna get any better. They're never, ever going to stop. And those are the people who are voting to take our rights away. And so if there's never any consequences for their bigotry, they will never even consider stopping it. So, um, those are the two most important things I think that any cis person can do that would really, really change life for trans people.
Wolf: We're gonna read one more quote from your book. This is towards the end, and that really spoke to me, and I think it ties directly with what you're saying. Uh, it's on all of us to fight for that Better future, a future where our truth can coexist with our doubts and our fears. Where people are trans CIS agenda intersex, non-binary gender fluid, or people who don't identify with any of those can live and coexist together in the light. Tilly, I really appreciate you writing this book, and thank you so much for coming on this podcast with us today.
Tilly: Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight.
Wolf: And thank you for tuning in to Securing Sexuality. Your source of information you need to protect yourself and your relationships.
Stefani: Securing Sexuality is brought to you by the Bound Together Foundation, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. From the bedroom to the cloud, we're here to help you navigate what safe sex looks like in the digital age.
Wolf: Be sure to check out our website securingsexuality.com for links to Tilly's book, her trans Tuesdays, and other information that we've discussed in this podcast today, as well as our live conference in Detroit
Stefani: And join us here again for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology, have a great week!