Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.
Links from this week's episode:
Financial Domination: From Online Transactions to In-Person Power Exchange
In today's interconnected world, the digital age has brought about a multitude of changes in various aspects of our lives. One such change is the rise of financial domination, a relatively new phenomenon that explores the intersection of intimacy and information security. This blog post aims to delve into the intricacies of this emerging trend, examining its roots, the motivations behind it, and the potential risks involved.
Financial domination, also known as findom, is a niche fetish that involves an individual deriving pleasure from giving away their money or assets to another person, known as a financial dominatrix (or domme). Unlike traditional forms of domination, such as BDSM, findom focuses primarily on the exchange of financial power and control. It is essential to note that this practice is consensual and operates within the boundaries set by both parties involved. Financial domination has its roots in the BDSM community, where power dynamics and control play a central role. With the advent of the internet and the increasing popularity of online interactions, findom has expanded beyond the confines of physical spaces. Today, individuals can engage in financial domination through various online platforms, such as social media, websites, and messaging applications. The motivations behind financial domination can vary greatly from person to person. For some, it is a form of escapism, allowing them to relinquish control over their finances and find solace in the submission to a dominant figure. Others may derive pleasure from the power and control they have over their submissives' finances, using it as a means of validation and empowerment. In the digital age, the intersection of intimacy and information security becomes a crucial aspect of financial domination. Trust is a fundamental component of any relationship, including the dynamic between a financial dominatrix and her submissive. As findom relies heavily on financial transactions and the exchange of personal information, maintaining a secure and confidential environment is paramount. Risks and Mitigation Strategies: While financial domination can be a consensual and enjoyable experience for those involved, it is not without its risks. The internet is rife with scammers and malicious individuals looking to exploit vulnerable individuals. Therefore, it is essential for participants to exercise caution and implement effective risk mitigation strategies. 1. Verification and Vetting: Both parties should engage in thorough verification and vetting processes to ensure the legitimacy and trustworthiness of the other person. This may involve sharing identification documents or conducting video calls to establish authenticity. 2. Secure Communication: Utilizing secure messaging applications, encrypted email services, or virtual private networks (VPNs) can help protect personal information and ensure the privacy of conversations. 3. Financial Security: Submissives should be cautious when providing their financial information and only engage in transactions through reputable and secure payment platforms. Financial dominatrices, too, should prioritize the security of their submissives' financial data. 4. Boundaries and Consent: Establishing clear boundaries and obtaining explicit consent is crucial in any form of domination. Both parties should openly communicate their limits and respect each other's boundaries throughout the engagement. The rise of financial domination in the digital age represents a unique intersection of intimacy and information security. As with any online interaction, it is crucial for participants to prioritize trust, privacy, and personal safety. By implementing effective risk mitigation strategies and engaging in open communication, individuals can explore and enjoy the intricacies of financial domination safely and consensually. Key Concepts:
Hello and welcome to securing sexuality. It's a podcast where we discussed the intersection of intimacy and information Security. I'm Wolf Goerlich. He's a hacker and I'm Stefani Goerlich. She's a sex therapist. And together we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in a digital age.
So last week last episode we were talking with Sean Gallagher, right? And he was talking about pig butchering, and I was talking to you, and I'm like, oooh, I know this one because you've talked about this. This is like pay pigs and all these sort of things. So I remember hearing you, like, do your consult, help the other sex therapist, uh, jive that you do. And you were covering this. I'm like, yes, and you're like, No, baby, no, baby, that is not right. It is not right pig butchering, which I still don't like. The term of it's gross. And I'm a meat eater and I still don't like it. It has nothing to do with what you're thinking of with pay pig. So what you're thinking of is fin, which is a dramatically different thing. Is it, though? Is it really? Well, I mean if done ethically. Yes, although I suppose you know there are risks for exploitation that could lead to pig butchering. Well, let's let's put the butchering aside unless people are into that. But that's not the show. Talk to me. What is fom financial domination. I'm assuming, Yeah, financial domination. So this is , a practise that usually happens online. It's not usually an in person sort of activity where somebody is , the financial dominant for their submissive, and that can take a couple different forms, right? The most common form, honestly, is just stuff like only fans or or other sort of content creator websites, where people will put up a wish list and demand that their followers pay tribute to them by sending them things from their wish list or by buying them gift cards. Um, in that sense, it can be seen as an extension of sex work. But there are also whole websites devoted to connecting people who enjoy this sort of mental and emotional control. Um, with people that want to , financially dominate others. So , that's the short version. So I wanna understand what financially dominant means, but first, since we are at the intersection of sexuality and technology. What tech are people using? You mentioned only fans. There are specialised platforms like Fom.com. The thing I thought was most funny was part of what brought this to my attention. There was an article published on LinkedIn on how to become a fin. Do so We talk about erotic minorities, kind of being marginalised and moving towards the mainstream. But I can't think of anything more mainstream to the point of boring and dull than linked in. So when LinkedIn is publishing how to be a fom post , you know that this is something that has gone relatively mainstream. Oh, come on. LinkedIn is super edgy. I saw people posting the other day that they didn't necessarily always like their job. Well, none of us like our jobs. No ethical work under capitalism, right? I disagree. I love my job, but, uh OK, so we've got social media in there. We've got what else? I'm assuming bank accounts. So is this just like standard cash or is this also Cryptocurrency and stuff? I mean, it's whatever the people negotiate, right, And that's one of the questions. It's hard to ask about any sort of negotiated power exchange relationship is people always wanna know. Well, what does it look like? And the answer is, it can look like all kinds of things. It can look like. Um General, sort of DS like a long distance power exchange or dominance and submission relationship where , people weave in an element of blackmail as one of the punishments, or as one of sort of the powers that is held, this idea that if you don't follow my directives, then I will take money out of your bank account. I will make charges to your credit card, and that can be one form that it takes. Blackmail would be more commonly a form of psychological play right where somebody's , they're role playing this idea of blackmail. They're role playing this idea of If you don't do what I say, I'm going to out you, or I'm going to tell others about you. Uh, this can have financial repercussions for people when we think about jobs and livelihoods and status in the community, so that can be admittedly a high risk. I would I would call this a form of edge play, but it is a form of psychological DS that a lot of people enjoy. Um, on the flip side of that, the less scary side. There are elements of caregiver kinks in this where perhaps the dominant takes on, like, a parental figure sort of role and gives their submissive a weekly allowance. Or has their submissive , stay within a budget and report out their spending to the dominant in a way that feels very caring and authoritative, not controlling or, or blackmail ish. So those are some of the main ways that we see fin down, Play out? Well, you know, I, I love the idea of getting an allowance with your own money is. And as much as I love that, I gotta go back to something that's sarcastic for doing to pick up. I gotta go back to something you said about punishments. What? Whatever happened in the good old days where they, like, had shock collars over the Internet or or the cages that zapped people? Um, that at least makes sense to me. Like I I'm not saying that it makes sense to do that, but a zap makes sense. I don't know that I would want someone to punish me by taking money on my bank account. I, I don't How do those two equate That doesn't make That's not tracking for me. So this comes down to one of the things that can often be confusing for people. People tend to think that sadomasochism is always about , sensation. Play like you're describing physical sensation, uh, zapping, swatting, pinching, tickling, physical things. But there are people that really enjoy their physiological reactions to those sorts of experiences who don't necessarily want to experience physical discomfort. So you might be asking me Well, how does that even work? How do you have a physiological reaction to something without the physical sensation? You know me so well, that's exactly what I was thinking. The thing is, is that our brains are primal creatures. Uh, they are wonderfully complicated, incredibly fascinating, woefully stupid machines and our brains cannot actually perceive differences in danger. So emotional risk feels the same and is received and processed by the brain in the same way that physical risk is. We're gonna have the same cortisol spikes. We're gonna have the same elevated heart rate. We're gonna have the same sort of endorphin rushes when it's over, whether something is physically scary or emotionally scary. So force people who identify as pay pigs or cash cows or human ATM, S or money, slaves or whatever term they use for themselves. They experience the same physiological reaction from paying the tribute or making the purchase or sending the , Amazon wish list item that somebody else might from receiving a zap or a buzz from a connected sex toy. They don't need the physical encounter in order to have the same physiological reaction, the thrill of the financial purchase, the risk of the spend, the sense of coercion, or of servitude. All of those are experienced in their brains the same way that physical risk or or fear or sensation would be is. Is the non-physical aspect a part of this like, Is that part of the goal you mentioned being online? Uh, and we're gonna put LinkedIn aside for a moment, but I think you threw out a couple of websites who's who are some of the websites you mentioned? Uh, fom.com. I mentioned only fans. There are others. Those are the two biggest. Some of the foot fetish websites also have fom components. OK, is the the act of like mediating this over an online app or text channel or something? Is that part of is that part of the the kink here? So the distance does seem to be a part of it. There are IRL in real life DS relationships where certainly, you know, a submissive will bring gifts to their dominant or pay bills or or do other things for their dominant as a way of showing their care for that person. But fin do specifically tends to be a primarily online experience, and a part of that can be because the fin do herself. And I'm gonna use she her pronouns because it is overwhelmingly female. There are some male fins out there, but they are few and far between. And and one of the elements of this kind of play is this idea that, uh, the pay pig or the cash cow is not paying for a service that they should not expect to get anything in in in in sort of reciprocity for the tribute that they're paying that the idea that the fin D would do something for them, whether it's send pictures or do a cam performance or anything , is actually really outside of the realm. And how dare they suggest such a thing and that that assumption can become a part of the humiliation degradation play. So , that obviously works better when people are online, as opposed to in the same room, the the dynamic and is facilitated by the platform. All right, so the the persons there, they're paying for a service where they can't ask for a service. They're engaging over one of these websites. If it is a website designed for this, I'm assuming it's not breaking the terms of service. I gotta imagine if you were to do this over LinkedIn that would break the terms of service, but But there's other technologies involved, right? So we talked about the the banking side. Obviously, the whole fam is tied to finance. So I guess my question to you is how does a bank distinguish between consensual fraud and non consensual fraud? I love that you're asking me the banking question because, I mean, the short answer is I don't know, we should call shako set, but, uh, my my sort of intuitive answer is that a lot of this is subverted because we're not necessarily talking about cash payments per SE, right? If somebody goes and buys a $500 visa gift card and then takes pictures of the the numbers for that card and sends those pictures to their fom where is the bank in that process? Is the bank even going to notice that transaction? Now, there are some extreme instances where, a pay pig might make their fom an authorised user on a credit card or add them to a bank account. Yeah, Yeah, that was the one that I remember. That's why I was getting towards Because one of the cases you're consulting on wasn't that that was part of it, right? They had, like, set up. Um, there is it still called dam, or is it called fin da? What is the dominant called in this part? Fam. So they set up the fin da on their account, and then we're surprised when the fin da took money out of their account. Well, let me clarify. The practise is uncommon. It is unusual for somebody to take the step of adding their fin do to their banks. banking accounts. Uh, because to your point about fraud, once somebody is added as an authorised user, it's not fraud anymore. You have authorised them to use your account. And if you wake up tomorrow and that account is empty, that was not unauthorised use of your account. So that is considered a very hm, a very deep A very , entrenched, a very edgy form of power exchange that I think most people in the community would not feel comfortable doing. But there are people that like to play at the margins. So, you know, nothing is ever completely outside the realm of possibility. What we more often see is people purchasing gifts from Amazon wish lists. Or, as I mentioned, buying gift cards. Uh, it could be something like , some of the FAM websites function a lot like the online content websites for, only fans or similar sites where the user purchases tokens. And then they use those tokens to pay their FAM content creator in that case. So there are a number of mechanisms and ways to avoid sort of the banking protective oversight that we have. When somebody walks into a bank and wants to. I don't know. Send a $1000 wire transfer. Cashiers and tellers are trained to ask questions about that. If you go to Western Union, they have, like, a whole , fraud prevention Q and a sort of board that they run through with questions. Or do you know who you're sending this to? How well do you know them? What is this for all these different questions? But if somebody's buying something on Amazon or buying a gift card at the gas station or purchasing tokens on a website, those are not transactions that have a lot of oversight. You know, you're reminding me a bit of what happened at our conference right, which I think we covered in Episode 57. We got conned, and one of the things that we learned was, if you transfer the money, it's no longer fraud. Like if you did it, you're on the hook for that. So, yeah, I, it seems, on the edgier side of edge play, I like this idea of tokens that you're talking about. I think that seems a little bit safer. So you have more control there. I mean, to a point. Nobody's going to tell you that you can't empty your bank account buying tokens. Nobody's gonna tell you. You can't overdraw in order to buy the expensive thing on the wish list. There are ways to protect the account specifically from being accessed without your permission. But there isn't a lot of protection in place to keep people from voluntarily making riskier financial decisions. Well, we're on the topic of things that go wrong. What about our favourite topic of the day? A. I and chat bots. What is going on with fins in chat bots are are they at risk of losing out? I mean, because I gotta imagine if you were paying tokens, I can easily imagine someone going, Hey, wouldn't it be great if we just got rid of those pesky women who are asking for the tokens and replace them with a chat box? We know that almost half of Internet traffic right now is bots, right? Is like 47% bots. So I mean, first, that begs the question. How do you know it's not already happening? And there is there are certain I don't even wanna say fail safes, But, uh, a lot of fins are low key content creators. They will, you know, give photo sets for a tribute. Or they might do live texting. Or they might do a AC, a conversation. It's very rare that they engage in , sexier activities , that we might think of with only fans, because that denial piece is a part of the eroticism for the submissive. But you know that we're moving towards an age where that can be replicated with a I, too. We just had that new story. Where what was it? A bank in Hong Kong. Somebody transferred hundreds of thousands of dollars because they were on a zoom call with, like six a i people that are not a I people. But they thought they were six people, that they worked with their bosses and coworkers and colleagues, and it turned out the entire thing was a I generated, and they convinced them to transfer money. So right now, we can still kind of parse out who's the human by looking at the degree of sort of customised interaction and and the request fulfilment, I'll say. But you're absolutely right. We're moving towards the time where, especially people that are finding their fins on social media. Uh, one of the one of the tips I read in the LinkedIn article said, Just go on Twitter and look at hashtag fin Do and you'll find people that wanna be fin dos and you can find your fin do that way. And I thought that was the worst idea I've ever heard. Because you're gonna find someone that will take your money. Sure, but you don't necessarily know that that's a fom that could to your point very well be a but. Or it could be somebody working in Tasha's Point last week, a pig butchering sort of , situation. So there's not a lot of ways to know if who you're interacting with online is real at all. And and that's true in this case as well. Yeah, and I know one of the ones that I've heard is, like only voice A I , and Princess Cinderella is using her own character a I to generate her things. So there's a lot of movement that way. Oh, but by the way, it wasn't just hundreds of thousands. It was tw nearly 25 million that these scammers got out of this poor guy. And he wasn't a consenting pay pig. He just was a regular guy who ends up being on a zoom with a whole bunch of fake people who are like, Yes, I agree. You need to do this. He's like, OK, if you guys want me to do it Well, let me tell you, uh, the physiological reaction he had the fear that that evoked in him once he realised the mistake he had made. You don't need to zap him or buzz him with anything to have a reaction there. So that is the case. That proves my point. Oh, well, do you think putting aside people or tricking people such as that and looking more at people who are using , these tools in a way that is both, uh, upfront to the person who wants to be dominated and the dominating person? Do you think we're gonna see a split in services? Now, let me tell you what I what I mean by that, I This morning I picked up croissants for us. They're on the counter. I thank you. You're welcome. They're not the best croissants. They're They're OK. Croissants. They're the type of croissants that you get at the grocery store on a Sunday morning. They're not the best croissants. Um, if you were to go to a great bakery, they might be better. Or conversely, if we were to make things at home, remember? Like when you made Hala bread on Fridays? Um, how great that hala bread was. There was some. Really? You cannot buy bread as good as the bread that I had that you baked on those Fridays. So there's a market for both, Like I can call it fast croissants like fast food. But, you know, bulk croissants made mostly by machines. And there's a market for your more artisanal experience. Do you foresee? Um, the the market for fam sort of splitting between those two. I think that that makes a lot of sense. We are moving in an age of hyper customization in all things, you know, whether it's micro identities in in the people that we hang out with and talk to or , custom made converse that I have with little messages on them. Everything we do, we we are living in an age where things move so fast and are produced so easily that you can have this hyper specific created thing. That is exactly what you want. And no living, breathing person can ever be that right? So there's always going to be a difference between those two things. As you were talking, I was thinking about when I went to the cyber brothel and I could easily see the personas that they had created for their dolls be turned into a I avatars that the visitors could interact with after they've had that experience after they've left, where they could feel like they're forming a lasting relationship with this entity that they have met in real life and the entire experience being created and artificial. And that makes me wonder that makes me think about something. You've been talking about a lot and to be key Notting, a conference in Chicago coming up in May on, uh, and that is authenticity kinks. What is the overlap between authenticity, kinks and pay picks? That is a fascinating question. One of the things that we are seeing in research around pornography is a move away from hyper stylized sort of parody or goofy films that were like feature length like I I always think of like the Matrix parody porn, right? Like in the nineties and early two. That was what porn was. Can I interrupt you? Sure there is matrix parody porn. There is. Yes. You know how much I love the Matrix. And we've been podcasting for years, and this is the first time you were telling me that there's matrix parody porn. All right, look, I went to the cyber brothel. Maybe we'll do an episode where you watch the matrix parody porn. I prefer to reacting to it. I just feel like you've been holding out of me. This this is all right. Keep going. Keep going. I didn't mean to interrupt you historically, and I mean historically to the early days of film pornography. There was some sort of conceit, some sort of plot, some sort of gimmick that drove the quote unquote narrative of what was happening on screen. What researchers are finding is that , Millennials and Gen Z as they age up and start watching created erotic content aren't actually interested in that. What they want to see is authentic people having authentic sex in authentic ways, meaning diversity of bodies, diversity of pairings diversity of gender identities, diversities of sexual orientation. They don't want the glossy, highly produced, really sort of like faux Hollywood porn of 20 years ago. They want something that looks and feels very real. And I think that ties in directly to what you're talking about now is it? People who are connecting with fins, for the most part, feel a very real sense of connection in those relationships, and they want people who will interact with them as unique human beings who will know how to degrade them in a way that works. Who will know what , gentle threat or , overt threat or guidance they can offer that will make the the pay pig the cash cow feel , seen validated and treated the way they want to be treated, even if how they wanna be treated isn't necessarily how you or I would want to be. Let's jump back to what you're saying about the hashtag on Twitter. If you just randomly like, you know, spin the dial scroll, click on one of these hashtags and pick someone you're not gonna know if they have any skill, and it seems to me, but what you're saying. This is, and maybe I'm putting too deep of a label on it. But this is a skilled profession, right? This idea that I've got access to your bank account, I'm gonna have to navigate that carefully. I'm gonna have to ask for things carefully. I'm gonna have to exert enough pressure, but not too much pressure. And, uh, And as you're talking through that it really highlights for me what you meant by Yeah, Don't just pick someone off a random twitter. Hashtag. The other question that came to mind was, as you're talking about historical avenues of pornography, I'm reminded of your line. That kink is, uh, you know, a place and a time right kink is driven by a moment. Is this idea of fam , part of the, you know, 2020 to 24 zeitgeist? Is there an underlying moment that's driving this, and if so, can we expect to see this, like taper off? What? What's your prediction as we come to the close of this podcast. So, in looking at the research, there have been folks studying the phenomenon of fom and researching in sort of like an ethnographic or sociological way Fams themselves, Uh, since like, the late nineties, early two thousands. So this isn't a super new phenomenon. However, it used to be a much more niche phenomenon that it is. And what we saw really was this exploded during the pandemic when people were locked down When , you know, existing in person relationships might have been cut down or disconnected for a while. Um, people were looking for ways to have those emotional erotic needs met, and they were looking to online facilitators for that, like fams uh, the flip side. The other thing that happened during the pandemic was a lot of people that did in real life work couldn't go to work anymore. We all experienced that I went on vacation, came back, went into lockdown and literally never returned to my office again. And that's one of the things that Sean Gallagher pointed out last week. The pandemic and the change in employment was one of the reasons why P butchering scams launch. So yeah, this we're we're we're shuffling the deck economically, and we have the same things impacting , sex workers and erotic content creators. And I wanna be very clear. Those are not the same people. There's some overlap, but not all sex workers create erotic content. Not all content creators do sex work, however. During lockdown for our sex workers, they were not like many of the rest of us who did in real life work able to do their jobs. It wasn't safe to service their customers or to go out on dates or to have interactions. So they turned to digital platforms because that was the way that all of us did work at that time. So we have this sort of perfect storm confluence of , a consumer base, which I hate to describe that way. But, I mean, we're talking about exchange of financial resources here. I'm gonna use economic terms for now, a consumer base who's cut off from its other ways of accessing erotic services emotional connection, uh, power exchange relationships. And at the same time, a group of workers who are cut off from their traditional ways of engaging in their work and earning their income, both going online, finding each other and since 2020 especially we've really seen this explode and go become common enough and go mainstream enough that I'm reading about it on LinkedIn. You know, when we are behind an app or behind a website, there is, I think, a feeling and I would argue an illusion of safety. So you mentioned the pandemic. One of the things that we our household really did was there's an uptick in , food being sent to us, right? Like delivery services. I came across a study and that felt safe, right? That felt very safe. You click a button, the food comes to you. It's great. I came across a study that was done in 21 out of California that found that line cooks line cooks were the highest risk occupation for dying during covid. Oh, wow. So we think we just push the button and everything is safe. But at the same time, we're creating this condition on the other end of the app that is very unsafe for large population of people in this case, delivery services and in line cooks. Um, my question to you is, as we wrap up this episode, probably the last thing I'm gonna be able to ask you about this even though I have so many more things on my mind. Uh, is you obviously consult with other therapists. You see this front hand? What are some of the ways that you would recommend? Um, either from a finan perspective or from a , client perspective, submissive perspective? What are some of the ways to do this safely, or is this really just a very edgy process? And you should just stick to talking to a I OK, I don't know that , I will ever say a I and safety in the same sentence. So let's just start by ruling that part out. So advice for both sides are really similar, and that is be clear about your boundaries up front and stick to them. So if you are interested in doing fom work, one of the consistent themes in the literature and in articles and and conversations with people who do fom work is this , sense that they are often pressured to go beyond their personal boundaries and personal comfort because of the financial states involved. Right? It's really easy to say. I send still pictures, but I don't show my face. Don't even ask me to show my face if you ask me to show my face. I'm going to degrade and humiliate you, and then I'm gonna make you pay a financial penalty That could be a part of somebody's, uh, fom dynamic. But if they have a cash cow, that is saying, but I'll give you $10,000 if you'll show me your face. I'll give you $12,000 if you'll show me your face. You know, the financial pressure can become a sort of external source of coercion. Um, we all have economic circumstances and realities that we live in, and much like any worker, you need to know what conditions you're willing to work under what your hours are going to be, uh, what you are willing to do and what you're not. And to stick with that, no matter what. Um, because if I need to make rent this month and I have somebody offering me $1000 to violate a rule I've created for myself, it can be really tempting to do that. And I'm not saying that they're pressuring or coercing or doing anything wrong. They are acting as one might expect, one to do, which is asking for a personal disclosure in exchange for a personal tribune, I get why they would ask. But that's why it's so important for the FIN do to have very clear boundaries and be very comfortable saying no, the flip side for our pay pigs, our cash, cows, our human ATMs is to know your limits, too. It is totally OK if this is your thing and I'm never going to judge anybody that is turned on or or feels happy and complete and engaging in this behaviour. But what I would say is set a budget for yourself. Give yourself an allowance. Set up a separate account that is your fin do account and deposit into that account what you are comfortable gifting in a given month. And when that account is empty, you need to be done for the month. That can. Also, if you do really like the idea of this intense sort of, I'm going to give my fom access to my accounts play, which I discourage. Let me go on record as saying that is a bad idea, but it is your decision to make. Then at least they only have access to that dedicated account that only has a certain amount of money in it and which is not tied to the funds that you use to pay for rent, pay for bills, feed your Children. Whatever the case may be, it is totally possible to play with FAM to explore financial and erotic and emotional degradation and humiliation in ways that are safe and fun and friendly. But it really starts with very clear, very defined boundaries on both sides of the slash from day one. Good advice, good advice. And that that that I'm not sure 100%. Um, I do not recommend finding your sexy time partner on Twitter no matter what kind of sexy time you're interested in. When money is involved in your sexy time exchanges, you want to be even more judicious in where you're finding people and how you are establishing trust before money is exchanged. Stick to LinkedIn. Um, yeah, Fi, Find your fom on LinkedIn. They're they're helping people enter the field. Why not? No, no. That is not advice from this podcast. All right, Thanks for answering my questions about this. And thank you so much for tuning in to securing sexuality. Your source of information you need to protect yourself and your relationships. Securing sexuality is brought to you by the bound Together Foundation A 501 C three nonprofit from the bedroom of the cloud We're here to help you navigate safe sex in the digital age. Be sure to check out our website securing sexuality.com for links to more information about the topics we discussed here today. Our live events and you'll notice nowhere on that website. Are we asking for tribute? But you know I won't turn it down if somebody wants to take a look at my Amazon wish list. Wow. What? You're someone? I'm sending you a link to my Amazon wish list. Yeah, Join us again for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology. Have a great week. Comments are closed.
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