Zoom Dating - securing sexuality podcast episode 81

Stefani is out sick, but don’t worry- it’s not Covid!
Speaking of the pandemic? Since 2020, the rise of Zoom dates has become a fascinating phenomenon. These virtual meet-cutes not only offer a practical solution for distance or health concerns but also introduce a whole new dynamic to the dating scene. Weaving in tips on avoiding romance scams with tips for fun-yet-secure Zoom dates, Wolf does his best to carry on alone.

Securing Sexuality is the podcast and conference promoting sex positive, science based, and secure interpersonal relationships. We give people tips for safer sex in a digital age. We help sextech innovators and toy designers produce safer products. And we educate mental health and medical professionals on these topics so they can better advise their clients. Securing Sexuality provides sex therapists with continuing education (CEs) for AASECT, SSTAR, and SASH around cyber sexuality and social media, and more.


Links from this week's episode:
Romance Scammers Favorite Lies Exposed - FTC.gov

​Exploring the Pros and Cons of Zoom Dating

In today's digital age, technology has revolutionized every aspect of our lives, including the way we socialize and form romantic connections. With the advent of video conferencing platforms like Zoom, dating has taken a new turn, allowing individuals to engage in virtual dates from the comfort of their homes. This phenomenon, known as Zoom dating, has gained popularity in recent times, but like any other form of dating, it comes with its own set of pros and cons. In this article, we will delve into the advantages and disadvantages of Zoom dating, exploring the various aspects that make it both appealing and challenging. 

Pros of Zoom Dating: 

• Convenience: One of the biggest advantages of Zoom dating is the convenience it offers. Gone are the days of getting dressed up, commuting to a restaurant, and waiting for your date to arrive. With Zoom dating, you can simply log in to the platform from your own home, saving both time and money. This convenience factor makes it especially appealing for busy professionals or individuals with limited free time. 
• Increased Options: Zoom dating opens up a whole new world of potential partners. Geographical barriers are no longer a limiting factor, as you can connect with people from different cities, states, or even countries. This expanded pool of options increases the chances of finding a compatible match and broadens your horizons. 
• Safety: In an era where personal safety is a concern, Zoom dating provides a layer of protection. Since the initial interaction takes place online, you have more control over the information you share and can maintain a level of anonymity until you feel comfortable. This added sense of security is particularly important for individuals who may have had negative experiences with traditional dating methods. 
• Creative Date Ideas: Zoom dating allows for a variety of creative date ideas that may not be possible in traditional dating. From virtual wine tastings and cooking classes to watching movies together or playing online games, the possibilities are endless. These unique experiences can make the dating process more exciting and memorable. 

Cons of Zoom Dating: 

• Lack of Physical Interaction: One of the major drawbacks of Zoom dating is the absence of physical interaction. While video calls can provide a visual representation of the person you are talking to, it cannot replace the feeling of being physically present with someone. Physical touch, body language, and other non-verbal cues play a crucial role in establishing a deep connection, which may be lacking in a virtual setting. 
• Technical Glitches: As with any form of online communication, technical glitches can be a frustrating aspect of Zoom dating. Poor internet connection, frozen screens, or audio delays can disrupt the flow of conversation and hinder the overall experience. These technical difficulties can be a source of annoyance and may even lead to miscommunication or misunderstandings. 
• Limited Atmosphere: Zoom dating lacks the ambiance and atmosphere that traditional dating offers. The absence of a physical location, such as a cozy restaurant or a scenic park, can make the experience feel impersonal and detached. It may be challenging to create a romantic ambiance solely through a computer screen. 
• Overreliance on Technology: Zoom dating heavily relies on technology, and as with any technological advancement, there is always a risk of overreliance. This can lead to a decrease in face-to-face interactions and hinder the development of essential social skills. It is important to strike a balance between virtual and in-person interactions to ensure a well-rounded dating experience. 

Zoom dating has undoubtedly changed the dating landscape, offering both advantages and disadvantages in the digital age. While the convenience, increased options, and safety aspects make it an appealing option, the lack of physical interaction, technical glitches, and limited atmosphere can pose challenges. Ultimately, the success of Zoom dating depends on individual preferences and the ability to adapt to this new form of courtship. It is essential to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision to ensure a fulfilling dating experience in the digital age.

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Key Concepts:

• Zoom dating
• Benefits and risks of zoom dating
• Privacy concerns in zoom dating
• Security concerns in zoom dating
• Tips for safe zoom dates
• Virtual tours for zoom dates
• Trusting instincts in zoom dating
• Pros and cons of using technology for relationships

Hello and welcome to Securing Sexuality. The podcast where we discuss the intersection of intimacy-

-and information security. I'm Wolf Goerlich. 

He is a hacker, and I am Stefani Goerlich. 

She is a sex therapist. And together we're going to discuss what safe sex looks like in a digital age.

But first, I I do have a confession to make. I do have a confession to make.

You are not going to tell them, are you?

I am. I am. I think anyone can notice that. That is not a real voice. Maybe it took a couple of lines, but I think most people get noticed. This is the Wolf show today, unfortunately because, uh, Stefani my my my sweet, sweet wife is incredibly ill.

Uh, so, you know, send her some get well wishes, send her some thoughts.

Uh, she's got a bad chest cold. It isn't covid. Um but of course, it had me worried about covid had me thinking about covid. And so I'm I'm racking my brain, right. Like we got to do a show we got. This is a weekly podcast, and while we do have some, you know, guest episodes that are are queued up.

We don't, uh, oftentimes have live episodes in the can.

So what am I going to talk about, right?

Am I going to talk about, uh, our recent trip to to cipher Khan, which was a lot of fun in in Milwaukee, where we we did a presentation on Securing Sexuality?

Yeah, maybe. But a lot of what we covered in that presentation was, frankly, things we've covered on the podcast.

Uh, but if you're joining us listening for the first time, having met us there, welcome to the show. She is normally here. I promise.

Uh, and I, I do need to promise, because she is the the more interesting one of us by far.

Uh, but maybe I Maybe I would talk about, you know, other other upcoming trips.

Uh, however, what occurred to me was is I'm looking at some of our ideas and, you know, we got a pile, as I'm sure most podcast people do.

I found, uh, one reference to Zoom dating. So here's the thing. Here's the setup. We've got this friend long time friend. Known him forever. His name is Brandon. Brandon and I met in the Michigan security community or my SE.

Um And, uh, you know, we we get breakfast or or lunch?

Uh, pretty regularly, although it sometimes regularly, is several months apart.

And so, of course, during the pandemic, we didn't get to see each other.

Uh, and then last year, we we got, uh, got to catch up and had a great brunch.

And I was like, So, you know, tell me what's going on?

Have you met anyone?

What's what's the What's the deal on that front?

And he's like, Oh, yeah, I met this wonderful woman and, you know, it's just a normal relationship, right?

We we met in line with it off on the dating sites, and then we had our first couple of dates over Zoom and like, Wait, What?

I thought you could only do meetings over Zoom. I thought I thought that's what Zoom was for.

It's like, Oh, yeah, I Zoom meetings.

Zoom Dating is a thing, bro, and, uh, and I had to check, right?

So obviously it is a thing. If you hadn't heard of it before, I, uh, it's is what it says on the tin. I looked at Google trends. You know the term took off, unsurprisingly, in April 2020.

Uh, and still, you know, people are are searching on it, uh, from time to time. So it's it's not new to anyone, but this idea of Zoom dating really, really, uh, tickled me for a couple of reasons.

One, It's pretty consistent with some of the things that, uh, you know, Stefani talks about in her 10,000 years of cyber sex, right?

Virtually every time there's a new technology, we use it to seek connection. We use it to build relationships.

And I'm sure I'm sure that it's not like the Zoom people had, uh, a persona for Brandon, right?

They didn't have the persona of the guy who's, you know, dating. They didn't have like, uh, focus groups. We get a whole bunch of people together and, well, we'll see if, uh, if the chat features are right, and we'll see if the Philtres are, I'm sure that was not on on anyone's agenda, Although perhaps it should be.

Perhaps that, you know, you could have, uh, Zoom for couples, and that would be a whole another, uh, whole another level. But here we are. There's a way to connect. There's a way to do technology. We're gonna use it to to have relationships.

So first, that tickled me.

Secondly, from a security perspective, it's pretty clever when you think about it, right?

For a variety of reasons.

Uh, one.

Hey, no safety check. I don't I don't have to call my friends and tell where I am and be concerned about something physically happening to me. If I'm not leaving my house Boom. No safety check. Which also means no safety check app spying on you. Awesome.

Also, it can be a way to, uh, you know, stop romance scams, right?

One of the things that we always say is, Hey, if you're if you're trying to protect yourself if you're overly sceptical of that overly perfect profile, insist on a video chat, right?

Good way to suss out if someone is real Now. We had Josh Mart on the podcast recently, The last episode talking about deep fakes and he may go Whoa, whoa! Who people can deep fake anything now and they can't. Absolutely.

I would argue that if you're doing a full date, that's a lot to dake, right?

At some point in time they're going to mess up. The longer you have, uh, exposure to to someone, uh, the more likely you are to suss out things that just don't feel right, which goes back to probably the best security advice, Uh, be it for fishing or be it for romance scams.

The best security advice that I can give, which is pay attention to that little voice that goes off that says this. This doesn't feel right. Oftentimes we we ignore that voice. We stick to the story, we ignore the voice. And what happens is we stick to the story. We ignore the voice, we ignore instincts. And then we get duped. So do do. Do please listen to that voice.

Well, we're on the topic of romance scams. I'm going to get back to Zoom dating in just a minute. But while on the topic of romance scams, um, the FTC released a study and I'll put the link in and the show notes of common things that people say, uh, in in romance scams, right.

So we we we want to start off with Listen, your instincts, because your instincts will oftentimes know before your conscious mind does When is AD faker?

It's a scammer.

Uh, secondly, here's some some indicators of compromise. Here's some things that, uh, scammers are saying, uh, why they may not want to meet you or may not be able to do a video chat.

Uh, I'm overseas in the military is a very, very common one. That's that's the one that comes up all the time. Um II. I don't I don't know why that's reliant on. Maybe it's because of concerns to the military. What I so that would be one to listen for. I'm on an oil rig, made the list, and I had never heard of that.

I've heard of people falling for scams and romance scams where they like.

Oh, we thought she was in the military and that's what she was already was on different time zones, and that's why it was very difficult for us to communicate over phone or over video. Never heard I'm in an oil rig, so I feel bad for people at oil rigs like it must be so hard to get a date because people are like, No way, you're a romance scammer.

That can't possibly be true. As a matter of fact. Now I've kind of tempted to create a dating profile just like me at an oil rig, just to see if anyone would would say hi. That'd be hilarious.

Anyways, I'm distracting myself.

All right, so I'm at an oil rig. I'm overseas. I think the bottom line is never date. People with bad Wi Fi if they if they say their Wi Fi is bad and they've got a million and one excuses for not connecting with you, uh, that's probably a really good indicator. They're trying to hide something, uh, or they're just weird. Like good Wi Fi.

This is They have five gs everywhere, right?

This is the 21st century anyways, back to Zoom dates.

So what?

What do you do on Zoom dates?

I asked Brandon what he did, and he's like, Oh, I. I watched a movie.

I'm like, Oh, that's That's awesome. That's sweet.

And, you know, you hit the movie Hit play at the same time and he laughed.

You joke, you have conversations. I like that. That seems very wholesome to me. It seems like the type of date that I would have had, you know, starting off as a teenager. You go to the movies. It's very It's a classic classic. Some of my personal favourite dates with Stefani.

And if I'm coming to a town near you and you're like, Hey, what would they probably be doing?

Here's here's two things that you'd probably find us in is like aquariums. We love aquariums. I've got some great pictures of her near jellyfish.

Oh, she's she's beautiful, but, uh, museums, right?

Art museums and what not, Uh, I like toaster museums and telephone museums and sewing machine museums and design museums.

Uh, not that's not on her favourite list. That's just on my favourite list.

But those don't often times have a virtual option, right?

Like you've got to go to Oklahoma if you want to see a good sewing machine.

Uh, sewing machine museum. You got to go all the way out to Oklahoma. You got to travel. You got to be there to be there.

However, a lot of these other aquariums and museums have virtual options. So one of the things that people do on these dates is that as they get on and they'll have virtual tours and talk about what they see, talk about the art, you know, basically like you would or the the fish, you know, like you would in real life again. I think that's kind of, like, feels very classic to me.

That feels very, very nice.

Uh, other things as I was, I was I was doing research for this, asking people.

Hey, have you ever been on a Zoom date?

Like I Absolutely.

What?

What did you do on a Zoom date?

Play video games?

Well, OK, I think, Yeah, that's cool. That's cool.

You know, it's a great way to spend time together. I'm not a video gamer, but I could see where for people who are that works. There's also been the rise of escape rooms, so people will do a Zoom date and have a virtual escape room. Awesome stuff, awesome stuff.

So if you're wondering, Hey, what do I do on a Zoom date?

There's some ideas. I also have heard some people who, like cook or bake. I don't know if I would really do the cooking or the baking because, uh, I, I would think that, like the other person's food looked better than mine. I would be I want your food, and I couldn't have the food, and then I'd be hungry, and that'd be sad.

So no I, I don't know that I would do the cooking and and, uh, the baking. But that is absolutely an option. So there's some There's some things that people do on Zoom dates.

Um, how do you How do you keep Zoom dates safe?

Well, couple things.

Um, first, from a a data privacy perspective.

You know, doing the blurred background is is always preferred.

Now, this is kind of counter intuitive, right?

You got to be very careful about this, because if you're on a Zoom date and they blurred their background, does that mean you trust them more?

Trust them less?

How are you forming that connection with that blurred background?

So, II, I don't know if I would do the blurred background, but that is one of the tips that that would be provided.

Um, I might just be careful on how I staged my background, right?

Not to, like, give away too much, because maybe I don't want them to know where my location is.

Um, similarly, you wanna make sure that no one records it, right?

Uh, if the Zoom meeting is recorded itself, you'll get a notification. This meeting is being recorded.

Um, however, someone could still screenshot or do a recording on, you know, on their computer or on their phone. So just be conscientious, as with any, uh, actions.

You know, mediated by technology. Images can be snapped, um, and recorded.

So, you know, there is some concerns that I haven't run anyone who's had this happen to them. There's some concerns that this would be you Zoom dating would be used similar to, um, Sextortion scams. Where you get on a date, you maybe get frisky a little bit, you know, play a little game of I'll show you mine. You show me yours.

You open up the the oven and spread because I'm wholesome, and I'm talking about no whatever. Whatever you may choose to explore or expose, we know can potentially be captured news against you. So you you do need to be aware of that too. I would not, uh, rush too fast on your first Zoom date. I think Zoom date three is probably the the right.

I don't I don't I have no idea what the right number is. But this idea that you you need to really have a degree of trust before you use anything.

Uh, any of these technologies to expose something that could then be on the, you know, taken out on the Internet or taken out of context?

Um, yeah. Scams happen right back to some of this FTC information thinking about romance scams. If you had a great Zoom date. You think and you hear one of the following things I would caution you that you may be getting, uh, a romance scam if you hear.

Hey, this was a great date.

Did you know I could teach you how to invest?

You might be getting scammed. Could be an MLM. Could be a romance scam. Could be I'm repeating myself. So just just be be cuts that one.

If, uh if it's like, this was a great date Oh, man, I really would like to see you again, but I'm so worried because my brother, sister, cousin, uncle, uh, Father-in-law grandmother, grandfather are in jail and or are sick and I. I just wish I had some money to bail them out. I wish I had some money to cover the health care bills.

Uh, you You could be. You could be getting scammed too. That's a very common, uh, you know, way to elicit to get money out of a out of victim. It's sort of, uh, soliciting to help my sick relative. Or so to help get someone that's close to me out of jail.

Uh, another one. Similar to that, but only on the positive side. Right.

Like, uh, you you didn't get hit by a bus, you won the lotto.

Um hey, I came into a lot of money.

I'm just trying to figure out, Like, how do I move it around?

I know we just got to know each other. I know we had a good date.

Would it be OK if I moved a little bit of money into your account?

Uh, yeah.

No, no. Probably a romance scam.

Obviously, you don't want to hear any of those things, Uh, after your your Zoom date, you want to hear things that are positive, like, Oh, this was a great Zoom date.

Right?

Let's go out again. Let's meet in person. Let's let's do something else together.

Uh, why I brought up Brandon was his first date. His first Zoom date led to other dates and eventually led to a marriage. The guy is married now. He's married now. He married after starting a relationship off of Zoom, which blows my mind, right. Just blows my mind that, uh, that is the trajectory of these technologies.

Um, and as I recorded, I said, I realise I need to see the guy again soon. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna text you after this.

So it's, um, as my wife would say, as the real Stefani Goerlich would say, all tech is pervert, right?

Every time there's a new technology out, um, we we use that technology to connect. We use that technology to foster relationships, and there can be security benefits. As with Zoom dating, we don't have to worry about safety checks.

We can, you know, better vet the person.

Uh, we can we can hopefully sniff out deep fakes.

There can also be safety risks, right?

Exposing information. We shouldn't, um, being recorded having our images used against us or having our text use against us or speech used against us. So the pros and cons of both of those always need to be weighed. But whenever there's a new technology, it always opens up both of those. And and it oftentimes is not used in the way the original designers would expect, which is exactly what we're seeing here.

Uh, with Zoom being used, uh, for first dates, love this. Love this. So hopefully that, uh, this quick episode has given you some ideas, uh, to take forward into your your week and your relationships. Thank you so much for tuning in to Securing Sexuality, your source of information you need to protect yourself and your relationships.

Um, so Securing Sexuality is brought to you by the Bound Together Foundation a 501 C three nonprofit. From the bedroom to the cloud. We're here to help you navigate safe sex in a digital age. Check out our website where I will have, uh, some links to what we talked about here today.

Also, some more information about our upcoming live events and join us again for more fascinating conversations about the intersection of sexuality and technology. Have a great week

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